One piece of the puzzle that I’m super passionate about — that admittedly feels like a short-term band-aid solution for an entrenched and many-faceted issue, but focuses on the piece that’s more in control — is talking about how to tackle the compounding effect of salary negotiation over the course of your first decade in the workforce.
As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Katie Finley. Katie has spent her career working at the intersection of marketing and data for consumer brands. She is passionate about taking distributed data sets — from inventory and planning, to on-site behavior, to in-channel performance, to lifecycle patterns — to illustrate the customer journey from discovery to evangelist. She received her B.A. in Human Biology from Stanford University, and is the Founder & CEO of Ori, a contemporary apparel brand for sizes 12+ based in Los Angeles, CA.
Thank you so much for joining us! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?
After college, I wasn’t totally set on a career path. My first job was in marketing at a startup studio, and because I was more analytically minded, that snowballed into this ‘customer acquisition’ function for a number of different consumer brands, both full-time and in a freelance capacity, for most of my twenties.
The one thing that stood out to me across these jobs was that I have one of those equally right/left-brained minds, and my superpower is taking large datasets from disparate sources and distilling them into meaningful insights about products, customers, or brands. I love patterns, trends, and numbers of all kinds. I *also* love investigating the color commentary around those datasets — really finding the story. That combined quant and qual skillset made me a great marketing analyst, and my fascination with people, behavior, and brands kept me on the consumer track along the way.
Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I made about a million mistakes as a result of operating under one, wrong!, hypothesis: I had to know everything, and be the best at it, before I was truly qualified to do it. In reality, most great managers I’ve had — or leaders I’ve worked for — generally just do their best to take action with the information available. They trust their experience and instincts and learn new skills along the way.
Early on, I think I could have saved myself a lot of stress and general wheel-spinning by just jumping into new projects and roles with the confidence that if something went wrong, I’d likely be able to figure it out.
That’s something I’m probably overly intense about sharing with other women early in their careers: instead of focusing on checking every.single.box before you apply for something, make sure you can check off some of them and then just go for it — you will figure out how to check the rest of the boxes along the way.
Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?
1 . Women defaulting to the caretaker role — whether this is for children, or for aging parents — women often have two full-time jobs, one at home and one at work.
2 . Significantly more men in leadership roles: when men are largely in control of hiring and promoting, unconscious bias & pattern matching results in a long-term, systemic effect of men bringing more men into leadership.
3. Bias around negotiation: research indicates that women risk more downside and negative perception from choosing to negotiate than male counterparts.
Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?
On a personal level, I always make time for conversations with younger women who reach out about navigating the first couple of years of their careers. I had a number of people kindly respond to my own cold emails when I was just getting started, and I try to pay that back as much as I can by being generous with my own time, and finding opportunities to be a sounding board or share my perspective.
One piece of the puzzle that I’m super passionate about — that admittedly feels like a short-term band-aid solution for an entrenched and many-faceted issue, but focuses on the piece that’s more in control — is talking about how to tackle the compounding effect of salary negotiation over the course of your first decade in the workforce.
E.g., let’s say a man and a woman go for the same job at the same company after they graduate from college. Both receive offers for 80,000; the man negotiates for 85,000, while the woman is agreeably ‘super grateful for the opportunity,’ and accepts the offer as-is. Compound that year over year: assume the woman negotiates for a salary increase that amounts to 6% YoY, while the man negotiates for raises that amount to 12% YoY. What started out as a 5,000 difference between the two salaries becomes a 24K difference 3 years out, and 42K difference 5 years out. (Take this 9 years down the road and the man is effectively making 100K more than the woman.)
This equation is def oversimplifying a nuanced issue when it comes to unconscious bias, pattern matching, entrenched societal gender roles, parental expectations, and how all of those things impact career paths differently across men and women — but to me, it feels like it’s something totally addressable and actionable on the individual level. If I can personally encourage more women to advocate for themselves and negotiate for themselves earlier on in their careers — on an individual level, it will cumulatively go a long way.
Finally, more broadly, with Ori: our mission is to create beautiful clothing that inspires comfort and confidence for women in all shapes and sizes. The fashion industry has been encouraging women to be smaller for decades — and to spend a significant amount of time & energy attempting to exist in agreeable smaller bodies — which has ripple effects in the workplace & more broadly, in our everyday lives. We think that your favorite garments — the ones that look as good as they feel — can help us stand up a little straighter, take up more space, and be seen as the powerful people that we are. Our size range, 12 and up, has long been an afterthought for the fashion industry, and we have so much passion for designing these garments that are another small part of encouraging women to go make a dent in the universe — in any and every size they are.
Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap? Please share a story or example for each.
To zoom in a bit, the one thing that seems overwhelmingly important to me — with both up- and downstream effects — is the prevailing societal role of each partner, male and female, in the family unit.
Still thinking broadly from the ‘societal level’, but focusing on this one issue — here are a couple of things we can think about with respect to companies …
1 — How can we push companies to accommodate for both parents in terms of equal leave policies?
2 — How can we think about more affordable and accessible childcare options?
3 — How can we make working environments, cultures, and expectations more conducive toward having families — for both parents?
And then — in terms of societal expectations at the individual level …
4 — Re-thinking current approach to gender norms in parenting, in which the woman is expected to take on the active, primary role as caregiver by default
5 — Male partners taking on more responsibilities at home
^ Shifts at either of these levels would have a cumulative effect in the workplace, most notably — more women in senior leadership roles, resulting in more women hiring more women into senior leadership roles.
Again, this is of course an extremely complex and many-variable issue that can be tackled from different angles; but the one that stands out to me is this current male/female discrepancy in caregiving obligations outside of the workplace. The more we can alleviate the pressure of multiple caregiving jobs that are so often prescribed to the female partner at every level, and work *with* men to become equal partners, the more we’ll see women leading companies.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Not sure if this is movement-worthy, but I’m really into personal accountability, which is an approach that has been incredibly helpful for me in managing my own company. One of my vendors late on a delivery? I could have managed the relationship better. Supply chain failure? I could have set up a check-system to catch it earlier, and I’ll have contingency plans for the next run. One of my employees didn’t work out? I could have done a better job vetting them in the hiring process, or better articulated expectations, or maintained an environment more conducive to sparking their best work.
Of course, not everything is up to you, but by viewing the world through that general lens … I think every single person becomes more empowered, which is good for everyone.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Until we make the unconscious conscious, we will be dictated to by it, and call it fate.”
It sounds woo-woo, but I actually find it quite practical. It just reminds me that we all have these stories we tell ourselves — about who we are, our circumstances, and what we’re capable of — and if we don’t investigate these handy self-imposed scripts, then our life stories become … ‘this is what happened to me.’
It takes courage to assert control over and assume accountability for your own career and life — but I think it pays off many times over.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
Jamie Kern (IT Cosmetics)! Talk about an empire builder. She’s unstoppable.
This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.
“5 Things We Need To Do To Help Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Alexandra Marin & Candice Georgiadis
Give women a chance! Unless we break the patterns and barriers and start seeing women as missing pieces of the greater puzzle, we won’t be able to succeed. I believe that once you set yourself such limits and see women as an obstacle in the way of your goals, you are in fact setting yourself up for failure, even though you don’t see it right now. Limitations of any sort will find a way to spring out in a multitude of problems and you won’t even see it coming or will spend an enormous amount of time trying to figure out what went wrong… what’s missing. Try a different approach, maybe a different puzzle piece. Try changing your beliefs about what others can and can’t do — give women a chance!
As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Alexandra Marin. Alexandra is the design expert that leads CodeCrew’s development and success. She’s been designing websites and improving the way people interact with emails for over 7 years, working with brands all across the web. After working on projects for some of the biggest brands and most exciting start-ups, Alexandra realized she needed a strong outlet for her limitless creativity and prowess, and she was ready to turn her work into a mission — That’s when CodeCrew came to life. Alexandra’s passion for customer satisfaction drives her desire to create a seamless user journey. She is passionate about creating a memorable user experience and wants to bring the power of poise and simplicity to some of the biggest brands as well as non-profits who may not have access to top-tier design and email marketing. Her interest in non-profits and the goal to make the world a better place is what fuels the work that CodeCrew does: Email Marketing for a more sustainable earth.
Thank you so much for joining us! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?
Thank you for having me! It’s quite an honor to be here. This surprising journey began almost 10 years ago, right after I graduated college, where I studied foreign languages and realized that I wasn’t quite a fan of translating documents all day long, buried behind a desk filled with papers. It simply felt like I didn’t belong there — as if something was definitely missing — and I had to find out what that was. I always loved playing sports but since my parents encouraged me to focus on studying instead, I had to give up on my passion and choose the safer yet less fulfilling path. This gave me a strong desire to make a promise to myself, one which I would have to honor for the rest of my life. I promised that I would never give up on my dreams, never give up on what makes me whole, and never give up on my true nature.
Once I realized that the desk job I was in didn’t make me feel whole I — this is where the surprising part comes in — found another desk job! However, this desk job wasn’t like any other 9–5. When I sat down to design for the first time, I knew that there was no turning back. It didn’t matter what desk I was at or where I was anymore, all that mattered was that I had found the work that unleashed my passion, creativity, and analytical spirit without having to worry that my personal and professional development would stagnate. Following design felt more like a calling than anything, and I am pretty sure this was one of the best decisions of my life.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?
Haha! Your question takes me back to one of the dearest moments of my life. It takes me back to two years ago when I got married. I’m kind of a freak when it comes to details, and after spending what felt like years looking for the PERFECT wedding invitations, I finally realized that I was going to have to design them myself if I wanted them to be as perfect as I imagined. So, there I went! I had to design them from scratch and then find an events agency willing to print them out without thinking I was totally mad. I’ll let you in on a little secret… I didn’t stop there. I went along and designed the ring box, menus, and gift box. At this point, I realized design was much more than any hobby or curiosity, it was my life! Luckily my husband understands my passion and still married me after pulling this one-off.
Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Hmmm, I’m going to call this one the most interesting because it helped me discover that no matter how experienced you think you are or how confident you are in your abilities to run a team, you can never truly run a company and be successful without putting your ego aside and your team first.
We were facing a situation where we almost lost a crucial project due to me being set in my own ways. Even though my team was doing an awesome job at presenting the right solution, my judgment was so clouded that I almost cost us all of our jobs and an important contract.
Somehow, I managed to take a step back and remind myself that there’s a very strong reason why each and every team member has joined me in this journey for so long. I was reminded that they could choose anything else to do or anyone else to work for, but they have made a conscious decision to be here and that thanks to them, we have made it so far.
I have never believed in the concept of a one (wo)man team, but rather in the strength of a team united by the same goal: To deliver top-notch services and actually make a real difference for the businesses we work with.
I realized the mistake I was about to make and I learned the importance of having an amazing team behind me and that experience does not grant you the right to believe that you always know what’s best for your company and that nobody is perfect, mistakes will happen and you are allowed to make them as long as you are willing to understand that you are part of a team, you are not the team although you are the one holding the greatest responsibility, they are the ones holding you.
Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?
Yes, that is true, unfortunately. To my mind/In my opinion, the most important element is the human factor. Although we have come so far, we still have to go a long way to the point in which we are all considered equals. Sometimes I feel like so many of us are still trapped in the Stone Age and are missing the point of our existence. Women have come a long way in the United States, but we forget that there is still a long way to go. We talk about gender equality so much that we live under the impression that the problem is half-solved, yet no concrete actions are being taken to eradicate it. The core of it all for me, having experienced gender inequality on a first-degree level, it all comes down to compassion. If we would all be a bit more compassionate toward one other, maybe we wouldn’t have to deal with the emotions of shame, guilt, and hatred that fill the blanks when compassion is not present. It should be as simple as that, but, unfortunately, it is not.
A major factor is education. Education lies at the foundation of needs for every human being. I like to imagine that children are clean book pages waiting to be written and some of them get to become best-sellers. You don’t get to write your own story when you’re a child, your parents and upbringing do that for you. your authors are misguided themselves, or are built on the truths and progress of past generations (as is natural) chances are your novel becomes a reflection of your programming and not an independent work of art. It does not become your work of art until you make it so until you pick up the pencil and write it for yourself. We live in a world today where there is an immense amount of resources at our fingertips for better understanding issues like gender inequality. You don’t need to have the first-hand experience as a woman to understand that there is a very present issue with the gender wage gap. Taking action starts with education. Without a solid education — based on healthy principles, love and respect, and the history of minority repression, including women’s rights — gender-related issues won’t go away.
As for the third factor, much of our modern-day work culture is influenced by traditions institutions of power. Women weren’t able to vote until 1920, and many women didn’t enter the workforce until the 1960s. In the grand scheme of things, this wasn’t that long ago. Women entered the workforce at a time when men had never worked with women before, they were used to seeing women as mothers — meant to be kept away from labor and power. These beliefs have influenced modern-day gender dynamics, and as previously mentioned, women have come a long way, but there is still much work to be done. With women still making 82 cents to every man’s dollar, we can’t say that we have earned equal rights yet. Women have worked hard to have a seat at the table, today, it’s about being equally valued at that table. Another contributing factor to this traditionalist power structure is that many men are not informed enough about maternity leave. While some companies to date have addressed that maternity leave should not be exclusive to a mother, but to both parents, there are still many biases around women taking maternity leave. Building an equal workforce for women involves equal, if not more, action from men to take part in education and progress.
Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?
Absolutely! Let me make a small side-step to tell you what our company, CodeCrew, is all about. We’re an email marketing agency with a strong environmental calling. What does that mean? Well, first off, we’re super honest folks so there’s no beating about the bush here — not all clients we ever work/worked for have an environmental mission. Focusing only on those clients would be detrimental to our greater goal. What we do instead, is ensure that whoever we work with has a mission, albeit making lives easier and/or happier for their clients, donating to charities or helping clean hundreds of tons of plastic waste from our oceans.
I know you’re probably wondering why we’re not exclusively environmentally focused, so let’s clear the air on that as well. Part of what we do here at CodeCrew is to run bi-annual campaigns where we handpick an NGO with an amazing mission and offer our full services to them completely free. This year we had Mission Graduates and ImpactMatters join our program. The first helps ensure that college is accessible for our less fortunate youth, while the second has an immense mission to help other NGOs understand if they’re doing a good job and where they need to improve.
Back to the main topic here, at CodeCrew we absolutely discourage the gender gap. We are a company built on equality in all forms, as reflected in our business model. Just because someone can’t afford our services, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve them. Sometimes you have to give others a hand to help them rise up. This stands true inside of our company as well. We believe that all genders, all ages, all ethnicities should have an equal opportunity for earning given that they do their best work. Our talented crew is made out of folks from as far West as the San Francisco Bay area, and as far East as Eastern Europe. The only thing we look at is how talented you are, and how much value you can bring to our team, we don’t care if you’re from Morocco or Vancouver, male or female, 18 or 55 as long as you’re leading with your heart. Our payment structure is built quite simple — we have a few tiers across a few different positions, and as your responsibilities grow, so does your wage; as easy as that. Nobody is treated or paid differently based on what they can’t change, but those who show a strong drive to make the world a better place through what we do are the ones who climb the ladder. The key to building this culture is being transparent. As we said, we are straight shooters who don’t waste our time with dishonesty or keeping things in the dark, we believe that transparency encourages equality.
Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or example for each.
1. We should start by raising awareness. We’ve been applying the same principle to the pressing matter regarding climate change and global warming and it’s working. Yes, it’s true that we are taking baby steps in that direction, but every step is better than no step. That’s how all success stories start, with small yet steady steps, until they amount to many people walking in the same direction. We begin by accepting that we have a real problem in front of us and that it needs to be addressed and we do that by educating people. That would be the second thing on the list to close the gender wage gap.
2. Educating people from all over the world, from all cultures and communities is vital to putting an end to discrimination and shrinking the gap. It requires a massive joint effort but the sooner we take action the faster women will have the same rights as men, including the ability to earn just as much or more.
Remember that this is not coming from a feminist who believes that the planet should only be populated by women — I’m exaggerating a little for the sake of making a point — but from a woman who believes that the key to success is equilibrium. A balanced frame of mind makes for a balanced world, a world where industries develop in a healthy way, without damaging the environment as much as they’ve been doing it for the past hundred years, a world where poverty would no longer be such a huge issue because we would all help each other and support underdeveloped communities, a world in which minorities or old beliefs will no longer create a rift between people, a world where women will be recognized for what they are, human beings just like men, with legal and societal rights, just like men.
3. Offering Support: In our endeavor to reach this ideal state or at least get close enough to a world populated by human beings with equal rights, we will need to offer support to those who need it. This third step might very well be the most significant one as every person performs better with a support system in place. We are social beings and knowing that there are support groups out there that can guide us throughout this life-changing journey encourages women and other unprivileged people to continue on the path to a better life, therefore, a better world. Women will have to adapt to a multitude of new situations and since our existence is all about constant changes, support is essential, knowing that there is somebody out there willing to offer them selfless help makes all the difference in the world.
4. Moving on to the fourth ingredient. Give women a chance! Unless we break the patterns and barriers and start seeing women as missing pieces of the greater puzzle, we won’t be able to succeed. I believe that once you set yourself such limits and see women as an obstacle in the way of your goals, you are in fact setting yourself up for failure, even though you don’t see it right now. Limitations of any sort will find a way to spring out in a multitude of problems and you won’t even see it coming or will spend an enormous amount of time trying to figure out what went wrong… what’s missing. Try a different approach, maybe a different puzzle piece. Try changing your beliefs about what others can and can’t do — give women a chance!
5. Which leads me to the fifth element: You. This is where change starts. Wake up and start appreciating your team or co-workers, appreciating their hard work and let them know how much they are worth. But don’t do it without believing in the process. Open your mind, open your eyes and see how important each team member is to the development of your company or your ability to perform. See the fact that you function as one organism comprised of fine routes and connections backed up by a complex network of neurons working towards the same goal. If one neuron stops functioning properly the entire system goes haywire or crashes. The analogy reveals that all employees are part of your team and all of them should feel valued in order to keep your system from failing and just like neurons, they are gender-neutral so discrimination turns out to be counterproductive. Any person is capable of error and since there is no such thing as the perfect human being, what lies at the bottom of discrimination? Pure prejudice and narrow-minded thinking, simple as that. Take a second and ask yourself: “Am I perfect? Have I ever made mistakes during my career?” and if the answer is affirmative — which I suppose it is because like I said, nobody is perfect — then you will realize that the problem is you, not the gender of your peers. This is also where an opportunity for change will present itself.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I would like people to understand that all our actions have consequences and that we should love and respect each other and the world we are living in a lot more. I would like people to be less self-involved and realize that it takes a collective effort to grow together and that our legacy should not impact the world in a negative way. We are not here to parasite the planet and leave nothing good behind. We are here to thrive together by supporting each other and the planet, starting with humans and all other living creatures. We all have a specific role in the ecosystem so don’t let yours be the one of a parasite.
The answer to this question loops in with what we here at CodeCrew are already trying to do — increase the world’s effort towards living more sustainably by raising awareness through the work we create for our clients. Regardless of your career, your gender or any other factor, you can make a difference if only you set forth on achieving it, and that’s exactly what we’re doing here.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Kindness is a language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.” — Mark Twain
This is my favorite quote and I try to let it guide me every day. It’s somewhat related to trying to find your calm in the middle of the storm. We live in a crazy stormy world and the only way to stay sane is to take a deep breath and take control of your anxiety and frustration.
Responding negatively to an unpleasant situation is only going to escalate the situation even more and won’t help you or the person you’re interacting with. Try being calm and replying with kindness and patience. Chances are you will get through to that person or situation better than by using aggression as a weapon even though that might be your first impulse.
Aggression always triggers a defensive response and builds up a wall between you and your interlocutor. If you practice kindness you will get to a state that allows you to communicate your message with ease and clarity and won’t turn the other person’s defensive switch on. It has helped me in many situations, and it diffused a lot of bombs, so to speak.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
I would love to meet Roger Federer. I would be so humbled by the experience and by the opportunity to have a relaxing breakfast with such an amazing person. He is indeed an inspiration to all of us, an example of a great champion, one of the most balanced characters I’ve seen, a humble man carrying with such dignity and honor the values that should govern all of our lives. He is somebody who has succeeded in life and stayed true to his kind and driven nature. I truly admire him.
This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you too! I truly enjoyed our discussion today, and hope you have a great week!
The fact remains that women are less likely to ask for higher salaries due to underlying stigmas that they will produce less outcome due to family obligations. With my son in a daycare service, I continued to work overtime, as I felt the pressure to compete with my male colleagues and also had obligations to pay for the household needs.
As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Jasmine Gercke PhD, President of Jazz Consulting, aka Dr. Jazz. Dr. jazz is a serial entrepreneur, author and yogi, and the creator of Jazz Yoga and a passionate advocate of healthy body and mindfulness practices. This spiritual advisor represents the world with her diverse reach from classrooms to boardrooms, with a skill set that ranges from social entrepreneurship, to alternative medicine and technology. She stands for humanity’s transformation, from stressful surviving into mindful thriving, by merging Western knowledge of medicine with Eastern wisdom through her work. Born in Wimbledon, UK, educated in Wiesbaden, Germany, and currently based in Canada, she completed her postgraduate studies in International Business at the Manchester Business School and now represents the world through Thought Leadership. Her Jazz Yoga Therapy Method is based in neuroscience, positive psychology, and mindfulness combined with sound healing music at 432hertz and is the first-ever method to combine yoga with music in this cellular healing revolution. Dr. Jazz shares her story and wisdom through her speaking events “ Your Breath is your Lifeline”, “Bounce Back”, “How to be a human in the bionic world of Artificial Intelligence”, and is currently promoting her upcoming book Billionaire Yogi — Health I$ Wealth in an effort to bring Peace and Joy to the world.
Thank you so much for joining us! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?
Absolutely. Do you ever remember having that ‘aha’ moment, where you question your entire life choices you took to this present moment and you ask yourself: “What now?” Well, I had that moment in 2007. I was supposed to be happily married, with a beautiful young child, and a promising career at Ernst & Young. I was the owner of a home, a car, I had disposable income and yet my perfect life was shattered into pieces in a glimpse of an eye. When that dreamstate fell apart, I awakened and realised I was not contributing enough to society. Unfulfilled with the choices I had made thus far, I decided to make a drastic change. Transformation is a journey within.
What enables me to find strength in moments of hardship is the light at the end of the tunnel. The shift was triggered by a diagnosis of major depression, which was primarily caused by my environment at the time. This was my permission to look inwards for answers and led me on a journey of trusting myself more. The first step of taking my power back was following my dream. I became a certified Yoga Teacher, which empowered me to resign from my job as a Resource Manager for Eastern Canada and this process inevitably led me to build a yoga school to serve my community. Change is brought about by this inner transformation. I was fighting for government aid to feed my young son during the legal process of my divorce. I felt the financial pressure and I was backed into a corner. I was a victim of societal boundaries, stuck in a grey zone. This is the paradox of being educated in a world where the system fails. However, giving up was never an option. After several months of struggling, I applied for a grant for young entrepreneurs which helped me birth my first Jazz Yoga School and fulfilled my dream to serve our community. In order to make a change in your wellbeing you must become your own hero, and this was my first attempt at it.
Accountability is key in business and in your personal growth. It is important for me to share that this was only a stepping stone to my true calling as a Keynote Speaker and Thought Leader. Through my speaking, I am able to tackle topics such as Artificial Intelligence and its power to support the advancement of healthcare in third world countries, which allows me to stay connected with the revolutionary innovation that we are witnessing. This transition did not happen overnight. It was a 10-year process combined with the constant awareness of changing my story. I now live to empower women and youth and shed light on the struggles we live on a daily basis in oirder to drive change through the power of education.
The beauty about my backstory is, that its darkness has led me directly to the light and to the path of Sustainable Development Goals initiatives by the United Nations. This innitiative will continue to guide my future, as I serve humanity; and this time with my head on my shoulders and definitely in the front line. My story is a constant reminder that we must surrender to the power of love. Your life can change in an instant. Never forget the power of your dreams. Whilst the shift was triggered by loss, it also activated a deep trust in my Self, which continues to drive me to always offer my best, to inspire and educate and spare the suffering of our fellow brothers and sisters.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?
This is a good question. There are so many stories and each one has impacted my life. I must say that every day and every human interaction brings about fascinating learning experiences in this career path. The reason I chose to be a voice for Women in Business, is that I am a woman of mixed race, who has experienced life as a single mother, working in the corporate environment in a mostly male dominated world having to fight for recognition. I know what it feels like to be paid less than a man working in the same role and to be rejected from boardroom meetings because of my sex. I have been mentally abused in my personal life and I have found my own power through positive psychology. Whilst it taught me resilience, it also motivates me to be a change agent.
Through entrepreneurship, I have been able to learn how to thrive as a team and use each others’ strengths to succeed. As a humanitarian, I proudly stand by the choice of love and compassion over money and power. This means using my skill set and faith to shine in a world that has lost its way and prefers to discriminate rather than appreciate.
I ask you to go deeper and find peace and joy in your journey by celebrating humans and their impeccable flaws, as this is what makes us all unique and irreplaceable in business and on this planet. The most beautiful part is the encountering of amazing humans on a daily basis. My journey as a spiritual advisor has taught me so much about my Self, as we lift others and we find our own success. This is a time where we must stand strong together and rise. It is time.
Recently, I was part of an amazing initiative to support non-profit organisations in South Africa to honor the incredible humans making a difference in this world on a daily basis. One person can truly change the world through the power of love. One local farmer has been working without running water on site for nearly 30 years. On the flipside we have used so much water that we are threatened to run out of it in this very lifetime. These stories have changed my perspective and we must continue to work towards the #ActNow initiative by the United Nations to bring awareness to the current issues we are facing as humanity.
Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting?
I would not characterize any of my mistakes as funny, however the word interesting does capture the experience of it all. Growth can manifest itself in many categories and in my case, the sacrifice symbolised with the time I fell on my head. Overworked and underpaid, I had lost my way as an entrepreneur and I did not see the fall coming. The key to a successful entrepreneur is self-care and whilst I was working in the Wellness industry, I was taking on way too much for one person and I had a huge lesson to learn in delegating work, or the lack of my skill at the time.
One night after working late, I lost consciousness and must have fallen head first onto the wooden floors of my apartment, as I found myself flat on the floor when I awoke. The egg size bump on my forehead was a clear indicator that I was hurt and with no memory of what had happened, I somehow managed to get to the Emergency. This fall was a wake up call. The long recovery back to mySelf affected my business and my personal life and I suffered tremendously.
Whilst this was a hard lesson to learn, it was also the opening door to my transformation. It allowed me to go deeper into my own value system and reinvent myself. My own growth into the digital world of Artificial Intelligence in the Healthcare sector flourished from this freak accident. A friend of mine captured it beautifully when he told me: “Falling on your head might have been the best thing that ever happened in your life.”
I was running a successful Yoga business into my fourth year of survival, which is seen as having made it if we look at it from a statistical point of view in the start-up world, but the truth is, that the market was changing and the digital world was emerging faster than imaginable. I felt the need to reach more people without continuously burning out in this fast paced and competitive society. The lesson was clear to me in the process of recovery: work smarter, not harder.
In business we can underestimate the projections and timeline of a project, which can be detrimental. In my case, I expected to be running the same yoga school for at least 15 years when I signed my original lease. At the time, I was not aware of my journey to come: a series of failures and accidents to experience. My frontal lobe concussion was followed by a minor car accident in the same year damaging my thoracic spine, which led to another physical transformation and refinement of my yogic path. The recovery of both the concussion and spine injury aligned with my decision to implement an exit strategy for my business at the time and bring the Jazz Yoga brand global by training digitally and travelling the world as a Speaker. This has directly led me to my current adventurous life as a Bourgois Gipsy, a life filled with humanitarian work and entrepreneurship. This blessing to coach in both a business environment and online is allowing flexibility in my life in a world filled with boundaries.
The fact of the matter is that I will likely be educated in the field of Healthcare all my life and that innovation is key in the path of success and change is inevitable. That I guess, must be the humour in it and the “funny part” you are referring to, as I can now laugh at the falls and obstacles when I share my story on stage.
Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
The most important takeaway from this experience was learning how to prepare my business exit strategy and in my life as an entrepreneur it allowed me to reinvent myself as a Thought Leader and Global Speaker by implementing a strategic plan. Over the period of one year I rebranded which has offered me an opportunity to sell the ownership of my business to another company or investor in the future. The exit strategy for Jazz Yoga School allowed me to liquidate my stake in the business and relaunch Jazz Yoga Ayurveda as a global brand. With the help of the national community TV project, aired in Canada and with the assistance of global ambassadors we have successfully relaunched. I have learned that it is never too late to claim back your brand and stand apart from the competition.
The learning process is ongoing, but the understanding that we cannot do it alone has become a key in the succession of achieving milestones in the bigger vision of my dream. The transition was a process of transformation that can be summarised in several layers of understanding life. The lesson of resilience in life has only confirmed my vision for this world and allowed me to self-express my authenticity and staying true to my calling, which is to serve this world and my family.
This expansiveness of my heart has taught me to live in the present moment and treasure every moment and as my son so bravely says to me: “Live your best life Mom”. This profound learning that we are all interconnected and have our own personal truth to live by, is manifested in joy and thriving in a world that is changing and filled with beautiful souls that understand the power of love. There is a lesson in every step of our path. This experience was a reminder that we can never fail, as life is designed as our teacher.
Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?
The wage gap between genders refers to the difference in pay between male and female and whilst John F. Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act in 1963 and made it illegal to pay men and women working in the same place different salaries for similar work, we are still recording statistics where women make $0.79 for each dollar compared to our male equivalent according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). Whilst one can argue that our statistics are not completely accurate, we have identified three main factors that continue to cause this wage gap in our society: Legal, Collective and voluntary.
To clarify, these factors which include occupational segregation, bias against working mothers and direct remuneration discrimation, are causing a trivial divide when it comes to lack of fairness in pay. We must commit to dig a little deeper and understand how we can support the Sustainable Development Goals (SDG) which include Gender Equality as the fifth most prioritised amongst the 17 goals in the 2030 Sustainable Development Agenda. Our mission is, to achieve equal access for primary education amongst all children and to eliminnate practices such as discrimination against race, sex, gender and mutuation?
Persistently, we acknowledge the gender pay gap in less developed countries, however there are still preserving?
Issues around the globe. Whilst we find comfort in the reports by the Centre for Global Development that states: “It often gets worse before it can get better”, there is no excuse for this old way of thinking, allowing inequality? We must achieve gender equality and empower women and girls to create a new world of inclusiveness and fairness.
Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?
As an Entrepreneur and CEO of our Canadian Consulting company, I am upscaling myself as a Woman in Business which will directly impact the gender pay gap. I continue to educate myself so I can inspire other women to become their own boss and leader. My reason for inspiring and building confidence in women is to encourage other women leaders to step up and to ensure our global economic growth and wellbeing.
One of the reasons we are still facing issues of gender inequality is, that we only have around 20% of women in political leadership roles and even less in technology related roles, which causes the economy to suffer as a whole. We need to focus on including more talented women in the AI, Politics and Leadership to accelerate the process of closing the gender pay gap.
Our consulting services to businesses include training and development in measuring the gender pay gap. We are aware, that calculating the statistics, is the first step towards closing the gender parity. We are continuously learning new methodologies of business to allow for improvement in reducing the time it will take to close the gap. Through our non-profit organisation (www.risenheaven.org), we aim to offer sponsorship to talented children, young adults and women, specifically to the less privileged allowing them to access financial support and creating opportunities for more women leaders across all verticals of business to succeed. This initiative is in alignment with the UN SDGs 2030 goals to close the gender pay gap.
Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or an example for each.
According to the Centre for Global Development women are more educated today than in any point of history. I think there are five reasons that stand out when we evaluate the core issues of the gender pay gap and allow ourselves to seek deeper knowledge inside to resolve these discrepancies in our society.
Taken from the initiatives of the United Nations’ 17 SDG Goals, I believe that, if we as a nation, focus on no poverty, zero hunger, good health and wellbeing, quality education, gender equality and last, but carrying the whole, partnerships for these goals, we have an opportunity to drive change on the societal level.
I am implicated in many charitable organisations with regards to education in the East and what appears to be one of the main drawbacks is that many women are not allowed to go to school at all, or have duties in the home which hinder the process of education further. The women that have the opportunity to pursue their studies end up marrying and still fall into the tradition of staying at home with the family. All these predetermined factors cause the occupational segregation and embody quality education and gender equality as mentioned in our solutions to drive change as a collective.
Whilst education increases women’s earnings, it has not had the effect we hoped for in terms of equal pay and justice. When I completed my postgraduate studies in 2001, I was hired in a low paid entry level position, which was on average $8000 less than my male peers. This trend continued even once I applied my acquired negotiation skills. I jumped ship to another corporate superpower and while my income increased I was never able to share the same playing field as my male colleagues in relation to our compensation. Over the course of a decade, this has affected my standard of living and that of my family.
This leads us to another reason for gender pay inequality — transparency of remuneration. If we as a collective teach women to respect themselves and empower them to ask for their value when taking on new opportunities, we will no doubt come one step closer to our dreams and find equality of human rights for all. This addresses Health and wellbeing at the same time, as it builds confidence and allows for financial stability to afford to take care of your health.
One solution that has been implemented is maternity leave for both genders. Whilst this allows for women to be more present in their careers, as they take a shorter leave, it also offers the opportunity for men to spend time with their newborn. This is seen as a solution to our gender pay gap, but it also raises the question of gender equality. It is scientifically proven that women need to spend more time to connect to their newborn, breastfeeding and allowing for the child to bond right after childbirth, whilst men tend to connect more after the child’s first birthday. Whilst this solution appears to be politically correct, is this not more advantageous for the man yet again?
Women need the time after childbirth to recover and the brain is often affected, due to postpartum and new responsibility and worry for the newborn. Separation anxiety can cause a lack of productivity and performance at work and the pressure can lead to “burnout”, which I experienced first hand. With the lack of support at home and the need to travel for my position, the walls closed in on me and I eventually had to take a partially-paid leave after the birth of my son. This strained me financially and slowed down my career path. All this was leading up to my divorce, and as a single mother, I was challenged further in becoming financially stable. Are we addressing the underlying issue of hunger and health and wellbeing, when we only partially pay for a leave of absence caused by mental health issues?
The Paycheck Fairness Act essentially works to close loopholes in the landmark Equal Pay Act of 1963 beforementioned in this interview, and it will lead us to move forward in our mission to be fair in all that is gender related discrimination. Transparency of pay also falls into this category and in my personal experience this is how I first found out I was being underpaid as a Woman in 2003 at my banking job. Comparing my income to my male peers, I learnt that I had the same experience, was delivering on my tasks and was remunerated less than my supposedly equal colleagues. I decided to educate myself on how to negotiate fair pay. I learnt to ask for a range of pay when applying for a new position.
The fact remains that women are less likely to ask for higher salaries due to underlying stigmas that they will produce less outcome due to family obligations. With my son in a daycare service, I continued to work overtime, as I felt the pressure to compete with my male colleagues and also had obligations to pay for the household needs.
I also compromised myself when it came to asking for raises and evaluating my performance and I self sabotaged, as I felt guilty for taking leave for family emergencies and obligations.
During my maternity leave, a colleague was hired to replace me, and he remained as a permanent position upon my return to work which basically made my position obsolete. This was the final straw for me. I decided to empower myself and take matters into my own hands. I embraced the entrepreneur in me. I was now my own boss and only I was responsible and accountable for my advancement in my career.
There are no boundaries in this life. When I hire my team I ensure to pay men and women equally and according to their experience and deliverables. We have a responsibility to offer equal opportunities to all humans, no matter what the gender or race.
A recent experience I had in South Africa with a local safe house that provides a transition home for newborns and abandoned children, took my breath away. There are newborn children left in gutters and at hospitals without documentation, often HIV positive, neglected, born addicted and premature. This dire situation is affecting the entire societal structure. Unless we place these children in stable homes and allow for inter-racial educational opportunity, we will not see change. We must strive to facilitate adoptions across borders to offer these children an opportunity at a privileged life without hunger and poverty, so they can return to their roots with an open mind and new mindset to add value to society.
It begins with each life we save. Education is the solution and government policies must support this need for evolution. Racial discrimination and sexual abuse are still amongst the most life threatening amongst the societal issues and we have the power to drive change as a collective.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
The movement I represent is to inspire the most amount of people through Jazz Yoga by applying mindfulness meditation across the world with jazz music tuned at 432hz which is the heart vibration in line with the earth’s vibration and will allow for transformational change on a cellular level. This is a Global movement that will allow the corporate world to apply tools to reduce stress and in effect reduce loss of the bottom line and allow for healthy humans in the workforce.
This can be introduced as an immersive experience with the newest technology which permits us to offer every employee an opportunity to take charge of their health. Health is Wealth for every business and the individual. If we awaken and self-realise and elevate our thinking as human beings, we can tackle some of these concerns we have for our society. Mindfulness is the key to mental health and will lead us one step further towards peace on earth.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
It is never too late to rewrite your story and it is not what you do outwardly, but the presence you bring to the action.
This understanding has allowed me to rewrite my story to become a thrivor in my own life. For the most part, I was standing in my own way. One day I decided to take the leap and follow my heart. Society tends to label and categorise us, and is usually based on stories of your past. If we allow this to influence our decision making instead of listening to our own heart, we will forever be trapped in the rat race of old thinking. When I decided to become a humanitarian and fully commit to my calling, the legal system failed me, and as a mother, I had to surrender and give up custody of my child to protect him. In the process I was humiliated and called crazy for my life choice to serve humanity. The irony of the story is that my own child understands what the legal system ignores, which is the fact that love is more powerful than money.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
It would be my honor to meet Oprah and share with her the vision to make this world a better place by serving humanity through love and joy and the power of Jazz Yoga Mindfulness Meditation.
This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.
