“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Leslie Lynn Smith and Candice…

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Leslie Lynn Smith and Candice Georgiadis

I work to hire a staff that mirrors the population of our city, which is predominately black and female. I pay them market rate salaries that match their male counterparts and offer a flexible working culture to accommodate the needs of all employees. I also have fought over the course of my career to ask my male bosses to compensate me commensurate to my experience and at a level matched to my male colleagues. I have been fortunate to have worked with a number of male allies who have accepted that challenge and have fought against a presumed accepted policy to pay me, and all women, less.

As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Leslie Lynn Smith, a nationally recognized entrepreneurial and business development leader. Leslie joined EPIcenter as its first president in 2015. EPIcenter was created to accomplish the Greater Memphis Chamber Chairman’s Circle’s entrepreneurial moon mission and serves as the central hub of Memphis region’s entrepreneurship ecosystem. Together with its partners, EPIcenter is pursuing a common goal of creating a robust and vibrant entrepreneurial ecosystem in Memphis and the Mid-South region. Before moving to Memphis, Leslie spent five years as president and CEO of TechTown, Detroit’s most established business incubator and accelerator. Previously, she was director of business acceleration for the Michigan Economic Development Corporation, overseeing the state’s $300 million start-up investment portfolio. She was named to the International Business Innovation Association Board of Directors last year.

Thank you so much for joining us, Leslie! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?

I started a banking career in 1986, fresh out of high school as a joyful bank teller, and moved through the organization as I completed college, from direct customer support to commercial workouts, and finally leading the department responsible for underwriting, documentation, and compliance for the commercial local portfolio. Banking provided a great foundation for the arc of my career, which has centered in deep relationships with people and a fundamental understanding that, for any deal to work, everyone has to feel like they are winning something.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?
I have been blessed to have too many interesting experiences to count. Among my favorites have been the times I’ve been invited to the White House to discuss our entrepreneurial efforts in communities and how that work might inform national policies. I’ve been able to meet several presidents and would-be presidents, including Bill and Hillary Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and John McCain. I’ve been able to meet and engage some of the world’s most extraordinary innovators and entrepreneurs, such as Fred W. Smith, Pitt Hyde, Dr. Roger Newton, Steve Case, and Kimbal Musk, to name a few. I also get to spend time with the next generation of entrepreneurs and feel the promise of our future at all times. Oddly, I’ve also spent a weekend on the USS Eisenhower, have flown in a Blackhawk, and delivered a TEDx talk in Memphis which, in spite of the fact that I speak all of the time for my job, nearly scared the sense out of me.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

I don’t know how many of the mistakes I’ve made were funny or interesting, but the one that taught me the most is easy to remember. Many years ago, as a young professional managing the North American real estate portfolio for a fortune 100 company, I missed a deadline to renew a lease for office space for the client which occurred over our holiday break. (Yes, this was during a time before the Blackberry, smart phones and computers you take home with you.) When we returned from the holiday, I found a letter terminating the lease, even though the client had indicated a deep desire to stay. I called the landlord and asked for an accommodation, explaining that I’d missed the notice date due to holiday closures, and they were woefully disinterested in my problems and had already identified a tenant who would pay a much higher rate. My heart sunk, and here comes the learning…I went to my boss and told him what had happened, how I had tried to fix it, and that I had failed in convincing the landlord to accommodate my error. He immediately stood up, said “follow me,” and walked me to our client’s office (we were co-located), where he explained the error WE had made, discussed some ideas for new spaces, and informed the client that I would be leading the site selection and lease process for our company. When we got back, he said “everyone makes mistakes, it’s what you do now that matters most.” That moment transformed me, we worked it out, and I have aspired to be that type of leader every day since.

Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

1-Women are most absent from decision making.

2-Access to salary data and the disparities therein is hard to find.

3-Policy framework re: fair and equal pay lacks consistency and accountability.

4-The economic imperative of female participation across all aspects of industry and economy are not amplified.

Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?

I work to hire a staff that mirrors the population of our city, which is predominately black and female. I pay them market rate salaries that match their male counterparts and offer a flexible working culture to accommodate the needs of all employees. I also have fought over the course of my career to ask my male bosses to compensate me commensurate to my experience and at a level matched to my male colleagues. I have been fortunate to have worked with a number of male allies who have accepted that challenge and have fought against a presumed accepted policy to pay me, and all women, less.

Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or example for each.

1-More women in leadership (they will DO this), and that means in politics local and national, on boards, and in the executive suite.

2-Adopt policies at all levels to require fair and equitable pay.

3-Make access to information about compensation free and available to create transparency and accountability.

4-Recognize the importance of the contributions of women to our economy.

5-Measure and communicate that impact regularly. Fair and balanced compensation for all people is not simply a moral imperative, it is an economic imperative.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂

I want our country to more intentionally, boldly and courageously support entrepreneurs of all ages, genders, ethnicities and sexual orientations. We still make access to resources, capital, customers and networks of influence too difficult for our entrepreneurial heroes who have the potential to transform communities. (I’ve included a blog I recently wrote about this because it gives a deep look at this concept.)

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

Henry Ford, “whether you think you can or think you can’t, you are right.” So, always believe you can. There’s power in that.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂

Brene Brown, Beyonce, Arlan Hamilton, Serena Williams.

This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.


“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Leslie Lynn Smith and Candice… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

Mr Cooper Group EVP Kelly Ann Doherty: “Here Are 5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Ga

Mr. Cooper Group EVP Kelly Ann Doherty: “Here Are 5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”

An Interview With Candice Georgiadis

Unconscious Bias Training and Practices: In order to grow female leadership within male-dominated industries, you have to encourage people to think outside their traditional box. Unconscious bias is just that, unconscious. It happens because people are typically most comfortable hiring people that they know, went to school with or worked with in the past. There is nothing wrong with that, but when you’re trying to increase diversity you have to find ways to break that cycle. Unconscious bias training is the first necessary (albeit small) step in addressing those choices and encouraging diversity.

As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Kelly Ann Doherty. Kelly Ann serves as EVP and Chief People & Communications Officer for Mr. Cooper Group overseeing all facets of human resources and corporate communications. As the leader of the People organization, she also leads culture initiatives to create a more encouraging and empowering work environment. Previously, she served as Vice President of Corporate Communications at Elevate, a financial technology firm. She also served as a public relations and affairs consultant for four years and as a strategic communication staffer for a Presidential campaign and within President George W. Bush’s administration with a tour at the White House in Presidential Personnel and N.A.S.A. as a political appointee. Kelly Ann is also active in the community, serving on the Board of Directors for The Women’s Center of Tarrant County.

Thank you so much for joining us, Kelly Ann! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?

I never expected to be a Chief People & Communications Officer playing a leadership role for an HR function. My past experiences have all centered around strategic communications and corporate affairs, so my path to where I am today is a bit unorthodox. But I must say, it feels like the perfect fit for me. I am a people person — I love inspiring people, talking with people, and I’m passionate about being a positive change agent for the company. In my time at Mr. Cooper Group, I’ve had the great fortune of working on many high-priority projects, including leading our company’s internal transformation and external rebrand. As we transformed from the inside out, we brought big and positive change from our core values, to the way we communicate with our team members and how we lead. I’m proud to have played a part in molding our company culture, and I’m excited to be able to continue influencing that journey in an even more meaningful way today.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?

I’ve had so many incredible opportunities throughout my career and taking on my newest role as Chief People & Communications Officer has already had many “pinch me” moments. Most recently, I had the incredible opportunity to visit our offices in Chennai and Bangalore, India. I had never been to India, and my experience was beyond anything I could have imagined. One of the most memorable moments from the trip was the overwhelming, gracious welcome I received that included a surprise flash mob dance in the middle of the office! I was enjoying watching the dance when one of our team members grabbed my hand and pulled me in to dance with them. I’m not much of a dancer, but I had a BLAST! The energy and enthusiasm they brought to the dance is the same our team members bring to their work, and I left in awe of how well they’ve taken the best parts of our company culture and combined it with their own special customs.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

As part of the announcement of my new role with Mr. Cooper Group, I participated in an internal video series shared company-wide that regularly features our CEO and members of the executive leadership team. One of the many great things about this series is that each featured leader gets to pick their own theme song. My pick — Beyoncé’s song “Girls,” one of my favorite hype songs. To me choosing this song was a celebration of the growing presence of female leadership on our executive team, and I received many emails and comments from women across the organization saying they loved it. However, in an anonymous comment, someone shared that the song, which I intended to be about inclusion, made him feel excluded as a man. While this one comment didn’t make me regret my decision to use that song, it did teach me a valuable lesson. It taught me that in my role I am more visible, and people are watching and listening as I make decisions and help lead our company. I strive to be a leader who exemplifies what it means to live by our core values 100 percent of the time. My goal is to promote inclusion and transparent communication across the entire organization, and my actions and words need to reflect that mindset.

Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

1. Lack of Women in Leadership Roles: Although they hold almost 52 percent of all management- and professional-level jobs, American women fall substantially behind men in terms of their representation in leadership positions. This not only contributes to the wage gap but can also affect how organizations operate as leaders often play a big role in the decision-making process and business strategy. As leaders, we must pay attention to how many women there are in leadership roles and how many women are in development to be there. You can’t expect a woman to grow into an executive role and compete on an equal playing field with men if she’s not yet had the opportunity to be in a management or leadership position.

On an individual level, women should advocate for themselves and know their worth. Don’t shy away from having a career conversation with your manager and be confident in discussing promotional opportunities and negotiating pay. Educate yourself on your company’s compensation philosophy to help reinforce that discussion. You should also be diligent and thorough in any self-assessments and annual performance reviews. Be intentional about stating where you feel you exceeded performance expectations and ask for specific feedback to know exactly where you stand and how to get to that next step.

2. The Persistence of Stereotypes: Despite efforts made to alter long-standing stereotypes, many women are still driven into roles that pay less than men on average. According to a Glassdoor study, nine out of the 10 highest paying majors are male-dominated while six out of 10 of the lowest paying majors are dominated by women.

In order to break this trend, I believe mentorship and advocacy are critical. When it comes to finding mentors and advocates, you should strive to build relationships with people you admire based on your career goals. That also means being open to your mentor being male or female. I hear many women express that they only want to mentor or be mentored by another woman. Perhaps it’s a comfort level decision or maybe it just feels like the right thing to do. In my experience, we need to be champions for each other in the workplace regardless of gender. In fact, many of my mentors have been men. I’ve found that a male mentor or advocate can give you a different perspective that builds confidence in your own voice. When you are the only woman at the table, that confidence is key to feeling empowered to share your ideas and opinions. Opening minds to mentor and advocate relationships across genders can help remove the “us vs. them” mentality that may be present in the workplace. The most important thing about mentor or advocate relationships is finding someone who believes in you and is capable of stretching and pushing you further than what you thought was possible.

3. The ‘Motherhood Penalty’: Research shows that many mothers suffer workplace-related consequences after having a child. In fact, according to one study, the pay gap between mothers and women who aren’t mothers may actually be even greater than the one between men and women. One reason this happens is due to inflexibility at work, which often hurts women the most as they tend to play a greater role in childcare. As a society, I believe we need to destigmatize the role men can play in the household. Truth be told, the path to becoming an executive requires hard and tireless work. The long hours can make it difficult to balance work with the demands of raising children, maintaining a home and living a balanced life. Having a partner that not only helps but is also willing to take on a leadership role at home can make life easier and create more balance. That could mean being a stay-at-home spouse, taking on daycare pick up and drop off duty or simply more evenly splitting or even doing the majority of the household chores. To get there, I think men will need to feel that role is as valuable as women know it is.

Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?

To close the wage gap for good, it’s critical that companies look at systemic solutions that help to reduce unconscious bias. Compensation, learning and performance processes and training are all key.

· Unconscious Bias Training and Practices: In order to grow female leadership within male-dominated industries, you have to encourage people to think outside their traditional box. Unconscious bias is just that, unconscious. It happens because people are typically most comfortable hiring people that they know, went to school with or worked with in the past. There is nothing wrong with that, but when you’re trying to increase diversity you have to find ways to break that cycle. Unconscious bias training is the first necessary (albeit small) step in addressing those choices and encouraging diversity.

· Annual performance process with SMART goal setting and merit guidelines: If you are going to level the playing field, you must have a consistent way of managing performance and compensating people accordingly. We have a cascading goal setting process that flows through every level of the organization. When it is time to do reviews, people are measured on clear goals. From those ratings, merit increases and bonuses are recommended based on formulas provided by the People Organization. This pay for performance compensation philosophy is one way you can help to eliminate favoritism throughout the process.

· Stay market competitive: We review our salary ranges annually to ensure we are competitive in the marketplace. If we have opportunities to right size team member salaries as a result of that analysis, we work with their managers to ensure they are being compensated fairly. Understanding the marketplace is not only smart from a retention perspective, but it also helps us recognize inequities within the organization so we can make adjustments.

Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or an example for each.

1. Women should know their worth and ask for what they deserve. This year, women are earning just 79 cents for every dollar men make. To make things more equitable, organizations should routinely assess market data, job roles and performance objectives then review what they’re paying each team member and adjust compensation accordingly. On the flip side, women should feel empowered to ask for what they deserve. Not everybody loves negotiating, but some preparation can help increase confidence. Take the time to research salaries for your job role and experience in your market and be ready to get creative if the base salary isn’t negotiable. Perhaps bonuses, benefits or a commitment for a future raise are on the table. In my case, I didn’t truly learn this lesson until I was laid off and then asked to come back to the very same company six months later. They asked me to take on a different position than before, and given my recent experience, I was bold enough to demand a bigger title, more compensation and equity. To my surprise, they gave me everything I asked for, and the role turned into one of the highlights of my career.

2. Women should advocate for themselves. It’s important and acceptable to remind people, particularly your direct manager, of the great work you have done. Oftentimes people shy away from boasting about their successes during annual reviews, but it’s ok to take the time to talk about your strong performance by providing specific examples and metrics. Ultimately, no one is going to be a better advocate for you than yourself. On my leadership journey, I’ve also realized that regular recognition and celebrations of successes can go a long way in encouraging team members to also speak up and acknowledge personal and team wins. Teaching our teams how to be cheerleaders for themselves and for one another is a cornerstone of engaging and effective leadership.

3. Focus on growing your experience bank. Remember that sometimes it’s not all about your bank account. When you consider opportunities think about how they could expand your experience. Developing your experience bank can lead to a bigger salary or better role in the future. Careers are not always linear; sometimes you may take a pay cut or demotion in one area that gives you more varied experience in another. This may provide you with a future opportunity you may not have initially expected. My role at the White House is a great example of this. When I was offered the job, it was at a pretty significant pay cut. However, one of my mentors pushed me to take it knowing it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. He was right. I may have passed up money that year, but I have been paid back in opportunities, growth and experiences many times over since then.

4. Encourage interest in STEM fields for women at an early age. We know the higher paying jobs, especially those in STEM fields, start with the necessary education to take on those roles. Today, those degrees are held predominantly by men and I think that disposition starts at an early age. Thinking back, I was told early on that I was good at English and history, and my brother was good at math. True or not, the danger in that statement was the subtext that I was not good at math. That was certainly not the intent, and I had parents that encouraged me in every way possible; however, I did shy away from math-related fields until college when I realized I actually loved economics thanks to a wonderful professor. Without that professor’s confidence in me, I’m not sure I would have had the confidence later in life to take on projects of a financial nature such as mergers, acquisitions and IPOs. Now, I can’t say with certainty that being told I was “good at math” early on would have changed my career path, but I can say having someone believe in you can transform the way you think about a subject. We should all start by believing someone can before you believe they can’t.

5. Invest in Diversity & Inclusion programs. I believe closing the gender (and race) gap starts with ensuring your workplace is inclusive and equal. A great place to start is having a thoughtful Diversity & Inclusion strategy. Strong D&I programs can spotlight under-recognized populations, give a voice to groups that may not have felt heard before and raise important issues for discussion (such as the gender wage gap). They also play an important role in leadership development through informal opportunities such as holding officer positions on D&I resource teams. At Mr. Cooper Group, I’ve seen several rising stars, many of them women, demonstrate leadership, strong cultural values and a commitment to excellence that has increased their visibility within the organization. That improved visibility can help lead to more opportunities and career growth.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂

You are giving me an opportunity to speak about something I’m very passionate about! I believe encouraging women to have an equal seat at the table is good for women, great for companies and even better for society. If I had to think about where that all starts, it’s in the classroom. I’d love to live in a world in which every child, regardless of the situation they are born into, had equal access to the resources they need to learn, grow and be successful. I’ve been blessed in my life with parents, friends, teachers and mentors that have all enabled my growth, and the result of that has been incredible opportunities. I wish every child had that same good fortune.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“Luck Is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity”

I attribute that quote to my father, but I think it was actually a famous Roman philosopher Seneca, who said this. Either way, it’s a motto I try to live by, and it’s served me well. It’s important for women to know that when a great opportunity comes their way, it’s not just luck but rather the result of hard work and dedication.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. :-

Sallie Krawcheck. She founded Ellevest, a company on a mission to close the gender-investing gap for women. I love her inspiring messages and focus on making investing and money more attainable for women. When thinking about how to close the pay gap, Sallie’s work is critical!

This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.


Mr Cooper Group EVP Kelly Ann Doherty: “Here Are 5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Ga was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close the Gender Wage Gap”, with Aram Lulla and Candice Georgiadis

Society is changing: more and more women are becoming the primary breadwinners and an increasing number of men are moving into stay-at-home roles. The media is bringing inequalities between genders more to light and thus causing corporations to change their pay policies under these pressures. There are also salary history ban laws being enacted in many jurisdictions across the United States that will theoretically pay people based on their qualifications, regardless of their previous salary history, to help “level the compensation playing field.”

I had the pleasure of interviewing Aram Lulla. Aram is the general manager of the HR division for Lucas Group, recently named one of the top 10 executive recruiting firms in the nation by Forbes for 2019. A seasoned HR recruiting professional based in Chicago, Aram has helped connect clients to candidates for over 25 years, the last 10 of which have been at Lucas Group. As the son of a Chinese mother and an Indian father, Aram strongly values the importance and validity of others’ perspectives, and he has built a highly accomplished HR recruiting career by holding the success and satisfaction of others as his paramount goal.

Thank you for joining us, Aram! What brought you to this career path?

Dumb luck. Not to be flippant, but I am an electrical engineer by degree and went to a search firm to place me as a sales engineer. In the initial meeting, the company turned the tables and recruited me to come work for them instead; 25 years later, here I am still loving what I’m doing!

Can you share the most interesting story from your career?

This career can fill you with endless interesting stories. One that stands out to me is a candidate that I placed in a HR generalist role back in 2000 with a “Fortune 50” company — she didn’t have the right degree or the right pedigree in general, but she had that “it” factor, so I put her in front of my client contact (a director). She saw the same thing I did, in spite of her own boss telling her she didn’t stack up to some of the other candidates under consideration. In spite of his discouragement, my contact hired this woman, who ended up becoming an executive at the company several years later!

Can you recall any funny mistakes you made in the early stages of your career?

I started my career recruiting for marketing professionals, mostly in the low-mid management ranks. We received a request to fill a position at the senior vice president level, so I started calling on marketing executives. Despite endless calls, I couldn’t get anyone to answer, but then I finally got someone on the phone — an EVP of marketing. I completely froze to the point that I couldn’t get my name out right, so I hung up the phone in a panic.

What lessons did you learn from that?

I learned that there was no reason to panic — they’re just people like me or you or anyone else. So, just have a conversation and don’t worry about speaking to individuals high on the corporate ladder. I’ve lived by that my entire career.

Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

Unfortunately, one of the main factors is discrimination, netting them lower starting salaries than their male counterparts. Their unequal pay is exacerbated when gender bias also gives them less negotiating power with their annual increases, putting them further behind. Another reason is children — in our current society, norms dictate that women have to take leaves of absence and take care of their children, which could limit the types of roles they take and/or lead them to less opportunities for executive advancement. Lastly, while society is evolving, many portrayals of women in entertainment or on social media show them as “softer,” which unfortunately translates in the corporate world as not having enough leadership skills to manage teams of people.

What is being done to help close the gender wage gap?

Society is changing: more and more women are becoming the primary breadwinners and an increasing number of men are moving into stay-at-home roles. The media is bringing inequalities between genders more to light and thus causing corporations to change their pay policies under these pressures. There are also salary history ban laws being enacted in many jurisdictions across the United States that will theoretically pay people based on their qualifications, regardless of their previous salary history, to help “level the compensation playing field.”

Can you recommend five things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or example for each.

1. Enact the Salary History Ban across the United States (aka federalize it).

2. Continue to break the mold and image of what a woman or man should be (i.e., avoid the phrases “run/throw like a girl,” etc.)

3. Vote more women into office to level the political playing field and potentially enact legislation that would benefit society more holistically.

4. Shed more light on executive women in leadership via interviews, articles, social media, etc. 5. Continue to break down the walls of what careers are “for men” and “for women.”

Can you please share your favorite quote and how it’s been relevant to your career?

Potential is the greatest excuse for failure.” I was told this by the president of a past search firm I worked for and use it all the time. People will often tell you, “Oh, but he/she has so much potential.” But if you don’t act on that potential, it means nothing. You have to execute, work hard, and follow through to achieve success — all attributes I apply to myself and my teams.

Who is the one person in the world, living or deceased, whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why?

President Barack Obama. Besides having Chicago roots like myself, here’s a guy who rode a wave all the way to the White House and really invoked a lot of change in our society through his election. It really changed the world, and I would love to get his take on what that lifecycle has been like for him and his family.

Thank you for all of these great insights!


“5 Things We Need To Do To Close the Gender Wage Gap”, with Aram Lulla and Candice Georgiadis was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Dr Margrét Vilborg Bjarnadóttir and Can

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Dr. Margrét Vilborg Bjarnadóttir and Candice Georgiadis

Specifically, my work focuses on the unexplained gender pay gap, which is the difference between what a female worker can expect to make compared to a male in the same position after accounting for job roles, performance, education, and any other factors that may influence wages. The reason why this is referred to as the unexplained wage gap is because the difference in pay cannot be explained by anything except gender. The causes of the unexplained wage gap are up for debate, but unconscious biases are a part of it.

As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Margrét Vilborg Bjarnadóttir, an Assistant Professor of Management Science and Statistics at the University of Maryland Robert H. Smith School of Business. Dr. Bjarnadóttir graduated from MIT’s Operations Research Center in 2008, defending her thesis titled “Data Driven Approach to Health Care, Application Using Claims Data.” Since then, her work has focused on challenging, complex problems of significant social impact, mainly focused on two application areas, health care and pay equity.

Thank you so much for joining us! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?

As an undergrad I did not really know what I wanted to do — I originally signed up for computer science, I checked out some math classes, and I finally selected engineering so I could “keep my options open.” After working my way through 50 pages on the chemistry of cement, a requirement of the civil engineering track, I switched to industrial engineering — and that’s where I found operation research. I remember thinking the mathematics behind optimization were just the coolest thing ever. I eventually went on to get my doctorate in operation research and have been fortunate enough to spend my career in academia.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?

I got to visit Lebanon as a faculty advisor, which was very memorable — it was such a range of experiences, from meeting the prime minister and the head of the central bank to seeing the marks of war on the buildings and how current events shape the society.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

When I was starting out as faculty, I obviously did not have the same great consulting stories as the more seasoned faculty. So instead I broke up my lectures with useless trivia from Iceland — and it was a hit. The biggest lesson I think one can take away from that is that you should not try to be something you are not.

Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

The reasons behind the 80 cents on the dollar figure are complex, and many are societal in nature — including how we as a society value different job roles. What my research focuses on is the notion of equal compensation for equal work. Specifically, my work focuses on the unexplained gender pay gap, which is the difference between what a female worker can expect to make compared to a male in the same position after accounting for job roles, performance, education, and any other factors that may influence wages. The reason why this is referred to as the unexplained wage gap is because the difference in pay cannot be explained by anything except gender. The causes of the unexplained wage gap are up for debate, but unconscious biases are a part of it.

Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?

Absolutely! I was drawn to work in this area when I was approached by an HR manager tasked with addressing their company’s gender pay gap. They could find no quantitative tools available to them, and because the previous literature provided no clarity on how best to close a gender pay gap — or any demographic gap for that matter — they did not know how to proceed after measuring their gap.

My work addresses this need. We have developed fairness-driven algorithms that determine how best to close the gap, focusing on fairness, costs and implementability. This was especially interesting as a research project, as each employee’s impact on the gender pay gap is complex. For example, one somewhat counterintuitive finding is that it is common to find men within an organization whose characteristics (in terms of their data) are such that giving them a raise may reduce the measured pay gap! We are now also broadening our research to address additional challenges, e.g., how to simultaneously consider and address multiple demographic pay gaps. These algorithmic approaches have then been translated into decision support tools that help those tasked with addressing demographic pay gaps to close them.

Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or example for each.

I think one of the hindrances to moving towards equal pay for equal work is companies’ fear that public knowledge of the gap could be used against them in a lawsuit. It will therefore be very interesting to follow the developments in Massachusetts, as the state legislature recently passed a law protecting firms that measure a pay gap from such legal action as long as they are taking concrete steps to address the gap. The hope is that this will enable companies and organizations to start addressing the issue in-house and move the needle in the right direction.

Another interesting development to follow is the impact of a two-year-old law in Britain. This law requires all companies above a certain size to publicly publish their median pay broken down by gender (along with, for example, the percentage of employees who receive bonuses). Since the country just completed its second year of reporting, we have not seen a big measurable impact, but a recent study focusing on similar legislation in Denmark showed that the legislation has helped, and the salary increases for women in Denmark have been outpacing the salary increases for men. Perhaps this “name them and shame them” approach is something we should consider in the US!

However, while rules and regulations may be helpful to accelerate change, organizations need to take action. Here are a few thoughts about what may help an organization to take steps in the right direction. First, measure the gap using real-time data. Organizations evolve, new personnel are hired, and others leave or get promoted. Know your current gap — not the gap you had a year ago. Second, a pay gap does not resolve itself, even with good intentions. Develop a plan and budget for it. During the annual review cycle, set aside a proportion of the budget to invest in correcting the gap. Third, if you are using performance data to justify raises, make sure that your data is not biased. And lastly, broaden out the definition of equity — it is not only about equal pay, but equal opportunity. Identify barriers and remove them.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

I am not a big quote person — I am, however, a big believer in using data to improve decision making. A story that I often share with my MBA students is when we needed to upgrade our MacBook. Instead of just taking our chances on eBay, we collected data on MacBook auctions (duration of the auction, starting price, ending time, the MacBook features, quality of the pictures, etc.). We then ran some models to understand what kind of auctions are the most successful and applied those observations to sell our MacBook, and we also did the reverse (modeling which auctions are likely to have the lowest bids) to buy a new one. And as a result, we upgraded for free (well, ignoring the time it took to collect data and model it!).

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂

We are at a unique point in history when it is (finally!) no longer socially or politically acceptable to discriminate in pay based on one’s gender, skin color, sexual orientation or other demographic characteristics. I am a big believer in data driven decision support, and I believe that with data and scientific approaches we can accelerate change. I would be happy to share a coffee with anyone thinking about how to close the gap within their organizations.

This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.


“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Dr Margrét Vilborg Bjarnadóttir and Can was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Vivienne Hayes and Candice Georgiadis

We need to provide real opportunities for children to try different things. Look at how women’s football is finally breaking into the mainstream, but why do we have to wait decades for such changes? It’s often still taboo for girls to play football. I was recently told by a young father how he gets criticism from other men for taking his girls to football practice.

As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Vivienne Hayes MBE, Chief Executive of the Women’s Resource Centre (WRC). Vivienne has spent over 30 years working in the women’s sector, both delivering and managing services. Her passion is to support and improve the life experiences of women and their children, and most of her work has focused on this. Vivienne was awarded the National Diversity Award 2013 for Gender Role Model, WRC won the Third Sector 2014 award for Britain’s Most Admired Charity, and more recently, Vivienne was a recipient of an MBE.

Thank you so much for joining us! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?

It’s a rather a long backstory, so to cut it short…. First of all I must give thanks to my mum for always telling us that all people deserve respect.

I had to move cities to escape a violent man, and was searching for a place to help me keep my sanity and stop me from falling apart whilst looking after my very young child. Through that journey, I discovered the amazing work that tiny women’s groups and organisations do in saving women’s lives and giving them the opportunity and confidence to flourish and progress. These experiences inspired me to dedicate my work to the women’s sector.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?

Meeting the then-Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister at an International Women’s Day reception and getting them to wear our “Why Women” badges, bringing awareness to the campaign we were running at the time which called upon the government to put gender back on the agenda, acknowledging the systematic disadvantage women face because they are women, and publicly recognising and adequately funding the essential services the women’s sector provides to address this.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

I attended a meeting at the House of Lords, hosted by an esteemed Lord, and whilst (nervously) chatting to him I swung around and knocked the drinks over with my bag. Lesson learned: don’t carry a large shoulder bag, and keep control of your nerves — nobody is better than you.

Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

The three main factors causing the wage gap are:

Areas of work where women are over-represented, such as childcare, catering, and administration, is some of the lowest paid work there is, often paid less than more traditionally ‘male’ blue collar work. A case was won by women in Glasgow, Scotland not too long ago resulting in their wages being increased to the same level as that of men in comparable jobs.

Secondly, the world of paid employment has been designed with men in mind; men who have a wife at home taking care of the children and all the household chores. Thus, work is generally unsuited to women who overwhelmingly take on the primary caring roles in families, and need more flexible working practices.

Thirdly, we still live in a male dominated world — just look at what sex the leaders of the world are — so old fashioned, outdated practices are still not being adapted and changed to meet the needs of both women and men in the world of work. This is such a huge mistake not only for women, but for men and, as evidence shows, for world economies.

Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?

My work is focused on women’s rights, across all aspects of their lives; we support improvements to the pay gap and quotas for getting more women into decision making, for example MPs. Without action, nothing will change. There are too many mediocre men getting the best jobs, and we need to give some of the not so mediocre women a chance to shine. I bet most of them would outshine the men!!

Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap?

We need to start off with the basics: teaching children that boys and girls do not have to comply with gender stereotypes, that these are just an idea, not facts, and that boys and girls can pursue their hearts desire and be whatever they want to be. This should be implemented throughout school; the books children read, the language used… A TV documentary demonstrated how changing the classroom, what books are available such as ones with girls as strong lead characters, and re-training teachers has a positive impact on preventing and challenging gender stereotyping.

Then we need to provide real opportunities for children to try different things. Look at how women’s football is finally breaking into the mainstream, but why do we have to wait decades for such changes? It’s often still taboo for girls to play football. I was recently told by a young father how he gets criticism from other men for taking his girls to football practice.

We need men as well as women to change their ideas about what boys and girls can do. We need men to start challenging each other, like the brave young dad I mentioned above. This is a hard ask though, as it requires men giving up some of their privileges and making real space for women.

The government and politicians need to make equal pay for equal work a priority. In the UK the current monitoring of the pay gap is a good step forward, but has little “teeth” in terms of practical changes being made.

We need women’s rights and equality to be a top priority across all government departments. We need Part 2 of the Leveson Inquiry implemented and to take action on the harmful media images of women and girls. In the UK the current level of domestic violence is at a 5 year high, and the level of rape prosecutions is at a 10 year low. The gender bias towards men runs deep in our society and is the cause of many problems, including the wage gap.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂

It seems to me that our societies are in real danger of losing “human love “ and becoming insensitive to other people’s suffering and hardships. The divide and rule rhetoric is a dominant narrative, but it is not the only narrative. I would like to see the inspiring work of charities like WRC and thousands of others take a bigger stage in the media, so that people can revive their own hope in creating a better world for us all- because it is possible if we all do one little thing to make it happen.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“We are the ones we have been waiting for” — June Jordan

This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.


“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Vivienne Hayes and Candice Georgiadis was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Ashley Porciuncula and Candice…

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Ashley Porciuncula and Candice Georgiadis

Audit your pay structures and salaries often, to ensure that there is equal pay for equal value brought to the company. It’s easy to spot conscious discrimination and sexism, but unconscious bias is more difficult to pinpoint and can creep into an otherwise progressive team. Check the numbers and challenge the ones that don’t feel right. If you’re unsure if something is fair, it’s probably not.

As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Ashley Porciuncula, a technical consultant originally from San Francisco and living Bristol, England. She began her career in Silicon Valley in web design and coding, and has since travelled and lived all over the world, helping companies build digital products and development teams.

Thank you so much for joining us, Ashley! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?

Thanks for having me! I had a keen interest in graphic design and coding as a teenager and started creating web pages for fun. By the time I was ready to start my career, I knew that tech was where I wanted to be, but I had a lot to learn. When I took my first development job for a San Francisco tech company, coding in a professional environment was entirely new to me. I sometimes wonder how I made it through those first few months! While I was there, I learned an enormous amount and was able to work my way up to become a Senior Developer before leaving to help co-found a digital department in Paris in the health industry. I spent several years building software there and eventually decided to go freelance in London so I could help more startups and technical teams.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?

There are a few projects that come to mind, like building a health tracking device from the ground up. It was my first physical product launch. There is so much to consider when developing a medical device from start-to-finish. The stakes are high when dealing with medications and health recommendations. It was fascinating to be so closely involved with the training of new algorithms. Plus, I’d never seen a dog on a treadmill before!

The thing that continually surprises me, though, is people. Every individual has unique motives, inspirations, fears. Building a team is a different experience every time, and requires putting one’s full head and heart into the process. Some of the most rewarding memories that I have are centred around mentoring and empowering others.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

Confession time! Before getting my first coding job, I had only worked on my own projects, with technology I had chosen and knew well. Standard development practices like committing code to a central location and setting up my machine to run code were foreign to me. I was so afraid to look stupid that I didn’t ask questions right away. I ended up making some silly mistakes and even wrote over someone else’s code by mistake. (Sorry, Meggie!) When I finally started asking more questions, everyone was friendly and willing to provide the help that I needed to succeed. I learned that even the most experienced developers have to Google sometimes. I wish I’d asked for help sooner. It would have saved me a lot of stress! People naturally want to see those around them succeed. If you need help, ask for it, and allow others the opportunity to be a part of your growth.

Ok, let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

This is a topic that is very close to my heart, and I’m glad we’re talking about it.

In the home, women still carry out an overall average of 60% more unpaid work than men, such as housework, childcare, and caring for ageing parents. Of course, this means that we’re ending long days in the office with cooking and housework, leaving us less time to be well-rested for our day jobs. When there is a need to leave the office early for a doctors appointment or soccer practice, women are the ones asking for time off. I firmly believe that needing this kind of flexibility doesn’t hinder a person’s ability to handle a senior position, but a flexible mindset is something that companies are only now starting to adopt.

There is an enormous amount of work to do when it comes to changing deeply internalised prejudices held about women. Everyone holds these to an extent, even if we think we don’t. When we are confident, it’s seen as arrogance. When we are passionate, it’s translated as aggression. Our body language is scrutinised in ways that men aren’t. The old stereotype of the heartless female leader is alive and well in society, and it affects how our colleagues and managers view us.

These things leave us at a demonstrable disadvantage to male colleagues, resulting in only 22% of senior leadership roles being held by women, even though we make up 47% of the workforce. This disparity allows for the “bro culture” that we see so much of in tech. It means that sexist conversations, inappropriate joking, and outright discriminatory behaviour often go unchecked. Experiencing this type of culture can even lead to women giving up on tech altogether. We need more men to be allies, to speak up and say something to their colleagues when they observe these things.

Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?

Absolutely! As a management consultant, demonstrating the benefits of diversity in gender, race, and other characteristics is something about which I’m particularly passionate. Diverse teams build products and companies that speak to a diverse audience. Inclusion is, therefore, a necessity, not a luxury or a quota to meet.

I also like to do frequent Twitter giveaways of books, courses, and more to help women who might not otherwise have access to such resources. I’ve recently given away some “Make Your Ask” negotiation courses, seminar tickets, and copies of “Girls Who Code: Learn to Code and Change the World”.

Can you recommend five things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap? Please share a story or example for each.

Offer family-oriented benefits equally to all parents, not just “mothers”. Be cautious about the language that you use around this. The best way to encourage equality is to normalise non-birthing parents taking on equal responsibility in the home. Build a company culture that views children and family as an asset, not as a challenge to be mitigated. Provide the parents in your organisation with a safe place to speak, then listen to them and enact their suggestions.

Consciously promote people who require flexible working. Observing promotions awarded to those who take time off for family responsibilities or prefer to work odd hours helps to create a culture where those with other responsibilities can freely ask for the time they need, without fear of negative consequences. The individuals in your organisation will take a piece of that culture wherever they go next.

Have a zero-tolerance policy for sexual harassment and “locker room talk”. Over 50% of women have experienced harassment in the workplace, but the fear of repercussions if they report this behaviour is overwhelming for many. Creating a culture where women feel safe to speak up will help reduce these instances, and ensure that they don’t go unreported. By doing this, you decrease employee turnover related to an uncomfortable work environment and mitigate any possible pay-related consequences that come when women are forced to switch jobs.

Audit your pay structures and salaries often, to ensure that there is equal pay for equal value brought to the company. It’s easy to spot conscious discrimination and sexism, but unconscious bias is more difficult to pinpoint and can creep into an otherwise progressive team. Check the numbers and challenge the ones that don’t feel right. If you’re unsure if something is fair, it’s probably not.

Finally, recognise that the gender gap and other forms of discrimination affect women of colour to a greater extent. Speak to your employees of colour about their experiences, ask if they feel supported, and be willing to make changes.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂

Something centred around developing more empathy. The lack of it is the root cause of so many things plaguing us today, as a society and a planet. We need compassion for those who are less fortunate. We need to help fellow humans in need, regardless of where they were born. We urgently need to commit ourselves to protect future generations who will be stuck with the planet we leave them. To truly love other humans is such a healthy thing. If we all developed empathy for each other, it would quite literally save the world.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

“A ship in harbour is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.”

When I first moved to Paris, I was terrified and miserable. I wanted to run back home after my first week, but I knew that would start me down a path of running back every time I was pushed outside of my comfort zone. I ended up staying for over three years. I realised that I am my own constant. Since then, I’ve started fresh numerous times, always excited for the adventure ahead, knowing that I can handle whatever comes my way. Every one of us has that strength. It needs to be challenged to awaken, but when it does, it has the power to change your entire life path.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂

There are so many spectacular people that I would give an arm and leg for some time with them. If I had to choose one, it would have to be Tina Fey. She’s such a great example of powering through and making your own success. She doesn’t stop, and that energy is something that I find exhilarating. I think I could listen to her talk about filing her taxes and still come out of it inspired to be a better and more powerful version of myself.

This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you!


“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Ashley Porciuncula and Candice… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Addie Swartz and Candice Georgiadis

Make Promotions Fair. Currently, a woman’s career journey deviates from a man’s right at the beginning with men advancing 21% more at the first level of promotion. This translates into pay inequity at the very first rung of the ladder, and compounds over time, making it nearly impossible for women to catch up to their male peers. Even worse, according to the 2018 Women in the Workplace report, only 38% of companies set targets for gender representation across levels and only 42% hold senior leaders accountable for making progress toward gender parity. If we want a new reality for women, we have to first acknowledge the current status quo and put systems in place to change it.

As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Addie Swartz. Addie is the founder and CEO of reacHIRE and a leading voice on how to support and advance professional women at all stages of their careers. Under her leadership, reacHIRE has grown from a pioneering Boston-based company focused exclusively on the return-to-work market, to the new digital platform Aurora, offering Fortune 500 companies solutions for engaging and retaining early-career women, mid-career women and returning women.

Thank you so much for joining us, Addie! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?

Thanks for having me! Empowering women has always been my passion. As CEO of reacHIRE, I work with Fortune 500 companies and talent innovators to help women thrive at all ages & stages of their careers — from young professionals via our exciting new Aurora platform, to returners using reacHIRE’s proven return-to-work cohort model.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

Aside from going to work one day wearing two different shoes, my most interesting mistake still guides me today. When I was early in my career at a major software company, I was assigned a mentor from senior management. And while I was thankful for her time, the relationship never became more than the obligatory annual check in. We just didn’t have common projects that bound us together.

Yet, a few years later, I was a fledgling entrepreneur in need of a smart, seasoned professional to serve as a sounding board and advisor. Suddenly it dawned on me. I knew exactly who to call! United in a combined mission, she helped me grow the company to its eventual acquisition. Her impact on my career was so significant it is why mentors and guides are such an integral part of our Aurora platform today.

Recently, I met with a woman who spent her whole career as a developer in the tech space. I wanted to explore her interest in taking a significant tech role at my company. When I learned that she was newly (and happily) retired, I let it go. But a few weeks later, I had an idea. What if I asked her to help me recruit the tech talent I was looking for directly? With her deep experience and wide network, I knew she could help me find the right person for the role. And while she wasn’t a professional recruiter, she had attracted and developed talent her entire career! So I reached back out to her to see if she was interested in helping me fill the open technology role at reacHIRE. Within a few short few weeks, we had an amazing new employee.

I learned from these experiences, and countless others, that there are never any dead ends. If you think creatively and drive with your eyes open, everything and everyone can lead you somewhere.

Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

While there are multiple factors contributing to the wage gap, the three that are most detrimental to women’s advancement are also the most fixable problems. Here are three changes reacHIRE is working to positively impact for professional women today:

  1. Make Promotions Fair. Currently, a woman’s career journey deviates from a man’s right at the beginning with men advancing 21% more at the first level of promotion. This translates into pay inequity at the very first rung of the ladder, and compounds over time, making it nearly impossible for women to catch up to their male peers. Even worse, according to the 2018 Women in the Workplace report, only 38% of companies set targets for gender representation across levels and only 42% hold senior leaders accountable for making progress toward gender parity. If we want a new reality for women, we have to first acknowledge the current status quo and put systems in place to change it.

    One of reacHIRE’s partner companies has “calibration meetings” where multiple people come together to discuss a person being considered for promotion. Employees know what they are being evaluated on, the information is set with context, and women have more confidence that the process is fair.

2. Elevate more women into leadership positions. While women make up 48% of entry level positions, only 22% of women make it to the C-Suite. And despite popular belief, only 2% of women leave the workforce to focus on family, proving that attrition is not to blame for the huge drop-off in women at senior levels. The dearth of women at management levels impacts the gender wage gap because we know from implicit bias research that people hire and promote people like themselves. When 80% of women report to a male superior, Joe is going to advance more than Josephine.

3. Build a networking structure for women. According to new research from Harvard Business Review, men and women require different networks to achieve the executive positions with the highest levels of authority and pay. While men and women both benefit from diverse networks of contacts, women also need an inner circle of female contacts, despite having similar qualifications to men including education and work experience.

For companies, the confirmation that women with stronger female networks are more likely to achieve better job placement, higher pay and more leadership opportunities offers an exciting opportunity to help women engage one another as role models, mentors and collaborators.

Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?

reacHIRE delivers solutions that strengthen and replenish the talent pipeline so future women leaders are equally represented at all levels. We see the systems and structures holding women back and are committed to being a part of the change that needs to happen.

reacHIRE’s Aurora digital platform is designed to help Fortune 500 companies engage, retain and advance professional women early in their careers. Aurora lets companies meet women where they are and provide immediate access to a larger community. Women connect virtually with peers and experienced guides to help them successfully navigate work challenges, celebrate successes and reach new heights personally and professionally. Setting goals, achieving wins, and sharing real-life stories are all part of the Aurora experience to help women succeed.

We also know that in order to close the gender wage gap, we need more experienced women in middle management roles today. One of the best ways to bring more women into the talent pipeline is to tap into the more than 1.6 million women with advanced degrees and years of experience currently on the sidelines. reacHIRE offers the most comprehensive, successful, return-to-work programs in the country, working with industry-leading partners like Fidelity, Wayfair, Deloitte & T-Mobile.

We hand select returner candidates based on the unique needs of client partners who are deeply committed to gender diversity. These experienced women work together in cohorts through custom training that updates their knowledge, enhances their skills & builds a community of peers. 100% of companies that choose reacHIRE’s programs sign on for repeat, expanded engagements.

Filling the pipeline with women returners helps balance the decision makers and create a more fair and inclusive advancement system for men and women.

Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or example for each.

  1. Flex the Flexibility. The more flexibility we offer women, the less they will opt out of the workforce. We practice what we preach at reacHIRE and have many different flavors of what work looks like. We are always meeting women where they are which often means different things to different people at different times.
  2. Put more focus on young girls and confidence. Research shows that women struggle with confidence including the infamous imposter syndrome, especially in the beginning of their career. While confidence grows with experience, we need to support girls earlier as a society so they can learn the mindsets and methods that promote action and resilience from Day One of their professional journey.
  3. Embrace the Coaching Culture. Kids have coaches for everything today but when they step into the workforce, they are often left to their own devices, with no roadmap to go from point A to point B. That’s a shock to the system for a lot of young professionals, who are used to support every step of the way. As a society, we need to create structures that mirror how young men and women receive support and encouragement today.
  4. Reshape Antiquated Gender Responsibilities. There is a lot of caregiving work that has to be done everywhere — home, family, work, extended families, etc. and women assume the lion’s share of the work. Even at the office, a study by Hive showed that women are more likely than men to do “non-promotable tasks,” or tasks that are beneficial to the organization but that do not result in career advancement.
  5. Better childcare options. Quality child care is expensive and requires a lot of time, attention and coordination. The more companies can support parents and offer them creative solutions for child care, the easier it will be for working mothers and fathers to bring their best selves to work.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂

I believe potential is all around us. In business, we are conditioned to look at resumes to fill roles based on specific job requirements and similar experiences. But what if we put more focus on potential and create corporate systems to cultivate and achieve it?

I’ve started three companies committed to helping women realize their potential. BrightIdeas, my first, set the stage for the return-to-work movement in 1992 by providing tech-savvy women the chance to work flexibly from home while introducing their communities & schools to educational software that enhanced learning in and outside of the classroom. The Beacon Street Girls featured a positive world for girls via fictional stories and a virtual junior high, creating a positive role model-based brand, to help young women navigate their teenage issues — providing them confidence & community.

At reacHIRE, we are inspiring a movement for women age 22 to “whatever and two“ to go after their potential. We want companies to recognize that potential is more than just what’s listed on a resume, or a similar role at a different company. Every day, we are working to replace the boxes that limit potential with the bridges that carry women anywhere and everywhere they want to go.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

I’ve always loved Oscar Wilde’s quote “Be yourself. Everyone else is taken.”

For me, it speaks to embracing individuality and recognizing all the potential you have in yourself and others. We need to see each other’s unique gifts, and harness the pure energy of potential for our families, our work and our communities.

This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.


“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Addie Swartz and Candice Georgiadis was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.

“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Amy Woolf and Candice Georgiadis

Stop congratulating men for doing things women do all the time. I recently saw a post on LinkedIn by a man applauding his lawyer for moving a meeting as he had to take his kids to school. The post received 20,000 likes on LinkedIn. 20,000 likes for a parent doing the school run! If I had a penny for every meeting I have moved to do the school run I would be able to retire! It’s become a cliché, but it’s true that women have two jobs — they have the emotional labour at home as well as going to their work life, while men hold down just one job and ‘help’ at home.

As part of my series about “the five things we need to do to close the gender wage gap” I had the pleasure of interviewing Amy Woolf, Managing Partner of The Woolf Partnership in London. A seasoned executive search consultant, Woolf specializes in transforming the leadership of her clients. She has a keen understanding of the future of the workforce and how that shift impacts the talent her clients will need. Prior to launching The Woolf Partnership, she worked at KPMG where she created a direct search service to the Partner group and was responsible for the design and content of the highly successful C-Suite Leadership Programme. She previously specialized in Executive Search in the professional services, technology and financial services sectors across Europe and Asia. A staunch advocate for gender diversity, Woolf has been a member of women’s networks throughout her working life. She represented KPMG on the Women on the Wharf Steering Committee and sponsored the creation of the UJS Student Women’s Network. She also takes a keen interest in social care and is an active lay leader at Jewish Care. She studied at the University of Manchester and the University of Massachusetts, Amherst.

Thank you so much for joining us, Amy! Can you tell us the “backstory” that brought you to this career path?

I grew up in executive search and I loved the opportunity to work with people. I loved understanding what motivates people, what drives them and finding ways to enable people to get the most out their careers. Similarly I thrived on understanding the heartbeat of an organisation and finding the best talent for my clients.

In 2011 I moved to KPMG to help set up an in-house direct search function, a great challenge which I enjoyed thoroughly. What the role offered me, more than anything, was the chance to be part of a large, Big Four consulting business and truly grasp what it meant to work within Professional Services. I took the chance to spend time in different areas of the organisation, and was privileged to have a place on the inclusion team. It was in that role where I started to uncover the complexity of the talent pipeline and the disparity in the gender pay gap. I had intended to be with KPMG for nine months, but ended up staying for almost a decade. It was a challenging and incredibly insightful time, learning each day. I was fortunate to work with a business that supported me during two maternity leaves, two operations and a bereavement. In my final role with the firm I led a leadership programme for clients who were soon to be on the executive boards of their organisations. Our programme focused on allowing them to navigate a period of exponential growth and understand how to turn challenges and obstacles into opportunities for their businesses.

I always knew I wanted to return to executive search, and when I took the decision to leave KPMG I knew that I needed to remain in the Transformation & Change arena. I wanted to help businesses find the talent to transform their leaderships that will enable them to thrive in the coming years. I also knew that I would be entering a world of responsibility. I have a responsibility to not only uncover the best talent, but also to make it as easy as possible for the most talented women to be matched up with the most innovative, exciting and forward thinking organisations.

Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this career?

In 2013 I was pregnant with my first child and very nervous about how motherhood would affect my career. I was entering an incredible new world in which I had no experience, and I wanted to fully immerse myself in it. Yet I also wanted to continue my career successfully. During this time, I was notified that I had been nominated by Brummell Magazine to its annual 30 under 40 Ones to Watch list, which celebrates the performance and achievement of young talent in London’s financial services sector and allied fields. It was a real landmark moment for me, to be recognised for the work I had been doing at this exact moment in my life, particularly as I had never thought I was doing anything particularly exceptional. I remember that when I saw the photograph of myself six-and-a-half months pregnant, my first thought was “I look so pregnant!” But when I look back now, I’m proud of both the recognition and of my role as an expectant parent.

Can you share a story about the funniest or most interesting mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?

I’ve always been ambitious and tenacious. Years ago, I was on an eleven-and-a-half hour flight home from Africa and happened to be seated next to a guy I wanted to bring in as a client. It represented a huge piece of business and I was so focused on developing that relationship, keeping the conversation going for most of that long flight. I succeeded in getting his business card and the promise that we would meet — after he got some much-needed sleep. The meeting went well, and we got the business. But the elation of this success was undermined seriously by the comment of my boss, who remarked that some guys would do anything to get the attention of a pretty girl. That demeaning, and now that I realise it, incorrect, response has stayed with me over the years, and influenced how I interact with men in business situations to this day.

Ok let’s jump to the main focus of our interview. Even in 2019, women still earn about 80 cents for every dollar a man makes. Can you explain three of the main factors that are causing the wage gap?

First, I think that organisations still believe that their businesses are better run when a man is at the helm. It’s a cultural reality reflected in statements such as those that identify women who lead as female leaders while men are simply referred to as leaders.

Second, businesses don’t value experience equally. If a person takes time away from work to pursue a meaningful experience, they are generally praised. But when women take maternity leave, they have clearly ‘taken time out’. Organisations fail to realise the experience garnered from maternity leave and cannot diversify what success looks like.

Third, the performance and reward system is broken. We ask very different people with very different styles to perform, negotiate and demand more when this simply isn’t everyone’s natural habitat. From an early age boys and men are taught their voices are more valuable than those of girls and women. And then we expect women to be as confident navigating their performance reviews. It is an unjust system. They simply are not armed with the same tools in their armoury, yet they are in the same battle. These are realities that require a fundamental shift toward equality and transparency.

Can you share with our readers what your work is doing to help close the gender wage gap?

I am dedicated to a project aimed at attracting a strong talent pool of women and placing them in companies where I know they can thrive. Many of them have had to make the difficult decision to leave positions they love because they are exhausted with the effort of juggling home with work in situations that don’t allow for flexibility, the casual sexism in businesses and fighting against an Old Boys Club. A shining example is the famous ‘Mother Pukka’ in the UK; she needed just a fifteen-minute adjustment to her workday to allow her to pick up her child from daycare on time — fifteen minutes that she proposed to make up by coming in early. She was refused by her manager, and ended up leaving her job. These women who have turned to contracting but miss the permanent roles in high- performing teams deserve to be introduced to organisations that will value their experience and expertise.

I have also made the tough decision to refuse to take on certain clients when I am not confident that I am sending candidates into a positive environment. My work is based on building trusting relationships, and I won’t work with people that I cannot trust.

Ultimately, my goal in every search I undertake is to present a short list that represents the entire talent pool. I don’t seek out only women or only men or only certain nationalities. I want to find the best fit for the client and the candidate and that has to mean a diverse shortlist.

Can you recommend 5 things that need to be done on a broader societal level to close the gender wage gap. Please share a story or example for each.

1. In the UK we have good maternity AND paternity leave programs. New mothers typically take off up to 9 months after the child is born — with pay — and most large corporations offer fathers shared parental leave. So childcare for the first year could be covered. That’s the policy that has been fought so hard for, but unfortunately the uptake in enhanced paternity leave is painfully low. I believe that this policy should be enforced. If a business has taken up shared parental leave, men should be told to take it. This would gradually change the perception that men are somehow not as expendable as women. One instance where this has worked well is where a couple both earn around the same. In that case the mother took the first seven months off to be with their new baby and her husband started his paternity leave the week she went back to work. Both of them felt they had time with their children and neither felt they were compromising on their careers.

2. Make childcare more accessible and affordable. It’s so expensive that many women, especially if they don’t have family who can help, are forced to leave their jobs to become the full-time caregiver, or work for little to no money by the end of the month. It is hard to increase your salary if you are not even in the workplace and if they return to their roles years later, it stands to reason their renumeration would not have increased in their absence.

3. Change the process around renumeration and reward. This is a huge and fundamental issue and one which will take years to change, but the system is set up to create a gender pay gap. In a recent end-of-year appraisal amongst a senior leadership team that is largely comprised of women, every woman received their total year package and thanked their CEO. The remaining men on that SLT were the only ones to question their package and ask for more. If we allow for negotiation, there will always be a large proportion of the population that doesn’t ask for more. It is not the fault of women that they aren’t demanding (despite common misconception, they aren’t) it is the fault of the system. I once said everyone should receive training on how to manage their own performance review. That will help, in the interim, but the system needs to be more transparent, more open and fairer in order for us to truly reach gender parity.

4. Stop congratulating men for doing things women do all the time. I recently saw a post on LinkedIn by a man applauding his lawyer for moving a meeting as he had to take his kids to school. The post received 20,000 likes on LinkedIn. 20,000 likes for a parent doing the school run! If I had a penny for every meeting I have moved to do the school run I would be able to retire! It’s become a cliché, but it’s true that women have two jobs — they have the emotional labour at home as well as going to their work life, while men hold down just one job and ‘help’ at home.

5. Role Models. It is so simple and yet we haven’t quite cracked it. Once upon a time ago we were meant to look pretty, bake cakes and run homes. Then we were supposed to be masculine and impenetrable in our shoulder pads as we went to work. Now the perception is that we should look effortlessly wonderful whilst remaining in control, which is not always possible and something often has to give. I would love to see women’s vulnerabilities being embraced in the same way men’s are. When men admit to having mental health difficulties, they are applauded for their openness and honesty. When women admit to post-natal depression or anxiety, they are considered unstable. We need to rewrite this judgemental approach and recognize that it’s okay not to be okay all the time. The truth is that no one can truly have it all — neither men nor women. So let’s just embrace the knowledge that we don’t have to be perfect.

You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂

I would like to see companies adopt a four-and-a-half day work week for everyone. Working people simply don’t have enough time for themselves. I would like to see them explore who they are and what they want. That might mean going to a yoga class, going to a movie, reading a book, taking a self-help course or just getting outdoors. I believe that both the employees and the companies they work for would reap significant benefit from this recognition that people need to concentrate on their own well-being regularly.

Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?

My most pertinent life lesson comes from my mum and has influenced everything I do in my life. She always told me and my siblings: “Don’t do anything by half measures, if you do something — do it properly.” It has taken me such a long time to learn I cannot do everything, but if I say yes to something, I do it thoroughly. I’m an all or nothing person. I give myself completely to whatever I’ve committed to. And I have my mum to thank for that.

We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂

I would love to meet Ruth Bader Ginsberg. I’ve been reading a book to my daughter that has stories about powerful women who have made or are making a difference in the world. RBG is one of the women included, and watching my daughter’s face whilst were reading was priceless. A true force of power and a wonderful role model.

This was really meaningful! Thank you so much for your time.


“5 Things We Need To Do To Close The Gender Wage Gap”, with Amy Woolf and Candice Georgiadis was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.