An Interview With Candice Georgiadis
First, we can use mindfulness to notice that most of our fears are about the future. Take a moment right now to think of something that worries you. Is it the past, the present, or the future? Usually, it’s the future. Even if I’m worried about something that happened this morning, I’m probably concerned with what the consequences will be later.
As a part of my series about “How To Develop Mindfulness And Serenity During Stressful Or Uncertain Times”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Ronald Siegel.
Ron Siegel is an Assistant Professor of Psychology, part time, at Harvard Medical School. He is the author of numerous books, including The Mindfulness Solution: Everyday Practices for Everyday Problems, and most recently, The Extraordinary Gift of Being Ordinary: Finding Happiness Right Where You Are. In his work, Dr. Siegel shows that while mindfulness may sound exotic, you can cultivate it — and reap its proven benefits — without special training or lots of spare time.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you share with us the backstory about what brought you to your specific career path?
I came of age in New York during the late 1960s and early 1970s, when the counterculture was in full swing. Lots of people were interested in changing the world — and ourselves — for the better. I began meditating as a teenager. When I became a psychologist, I and a number of colleagues in the Harvard Medical School community started to wonder about what psychotherapy and neuroscience could learn from meditation — and vice versa. We began writing about this and training other mental health professionals. It’s been a real privilege to connect for decades with therapists and researchers all over the world exploring the power of mindfulness.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career?
That’s challenging; there have been so many! Early on, a man came to see me for therapy who had just sold his oil trading business for $30 million. He kept using the phrase, “30 million dollars cash,” which made me picture a wheelbarrow full of bills. But he was depressed. Now that he was no longer making deals, he felt at loose ends, without meaning or purpose. Being philosophically inclined, I was excited to work with him. I imagined that he was at a vital turning point, and I could help him find a new sense of meaning in life, beyond material wealth. But the first few sessions didn’t go well. I just wasn’t connecting with him. At about the fourth meeting, however, he came in looking much happier. When I asked what had happened, he said, “I’ve come up with a plan for parlaying my $30 million into a $50 million business. When I pull this off, I know I’ll finally feel like a success!”
He was completely serious, and that was the last I saw of him. But it turns out this patient had given me a real gift. As a young psychologist, I had plenty of concerns about my own professional, social, and romantic success. That day, I realized that no matter what I accomplished, the tendency to compare myself to others would probably continue — I’d just pick new peers to compete with. Decades later, this culminated in developing a program to help all of us be less concerned with social comparison and trying to prove ourselves. That’s the subject of my most recent book, The Extraordinary Gift of Being Ordinary: Finding Happiness Right Where You Are.
What advice would you give to other leaders about how to create a fantastic work culture?
My advice is to look for ways to help everyone on the team shift from showing off their individual talents to rowing together toward shared goals. This starts at the top! Leaders need to be honest about their shortcomings and insecurities, welcome input, and encourage team members to also speak the truth about their strengths and weaknesses. In virtually any organization, concerns about how we look and what others think about us can get in the way of the team being productive and supportive.
Is there a particular book that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
I’d love to. It’s a bit obscure, but there was a Tibetan Buddhist teacher named Chögyam Trungpa who wrote a book in the early 1970s called Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism. The book focused on how we can manage to turn absolutely anything we do into striving to prove ourselves, to raise our self-esteem. And among meditators, you can see how this quickly becomes ridiculous: Who is the more accomplished meditator? Who is less concerned with ego? The book helped me to see early on that our human propensity to compare ourselves to others knows no bounds — we can even turn “getting beyond ego” into an area for ego competition.
Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s move to the main focus of our interview. From your experience or research, how would you define and describe the state of being mindful?
To define it as concisely as I can: Mindfulness describes a particular attitude toward each moment. It’s about being aware of what we are experiencing, with loving acceptance. That means paying attention to moment-to-moment sensations like seeing, hearing, tasting, and touching, as well as mental responses (liking some experiences, not liking others). And it involves being open to — and curious about — everything that happens.
This might be intuitive to you, but it will be instructive to spell this out. Can you share with our readers a few of the physical, mental, and emotional benefits of becoming mindful?
Our lives actually consist of a series of moments. Most people don’t get to the end of their lives and think, “I wish I had spent more time in the office,” or even, “I wish I had climbed Mount Everest.” But they do often think, “I wish I had been more present for the simple moments of my life — not so caught in worrying about the future or regretting the past.”
Research shows that what we do each moment is less important for our well-being than whether we’re able to be present. It turns out that people are actually happier doing the dishes — and paying attention to the process — than they are eating a gourmet meal while thinking about something else. Just learning to pay attention to what is happening here and now, and to accept whatever it is, makes our lives richer and more fulfilling.
Mindfulness also helps us to deal with our emotions more skillfully. Most psychological distress is actually caused by resisting unpleasant feelings. Whether we drink too much to try to get rid of feelings of stress, or avoid going to parties or speaking publicly so as not to feel anxious or awkward, it’s the attempts to avoid difficult feelings that get us into trouble. We’re afraid that if something bad happens we’ll get stuck in sadness, anxiety, shame, anger, or another painful feeling. Mindfulness practices help us to allow all of these emotions to arise and pass. This ability to feel feelings fully, but not get caught in them, helps us to be more courageous and flexible in our lives.
Mindfulness practices also can make us healthier physically. Many medical problems are either caused or exacerbated by stress. As we become more comfortable with our emotions we spend less time reacting like an animal under threat and become more relaxed. This helps us to sleep more deeply and makes it less likely that we’ll get stuck in patterns of stomach upset, chronic musculoskeletal pain, skin rashes, and all sorts of other stress-related disorders. It also helps our immune system to function better and reduces cardiovascular risk.
Ok. Here is the main question of our discussion. The past 5 years have been filled with upheaval and political uncertainty. Many people have become anxious from the dramatic jolts of the news cycle. From your experience or research, what are five steps that each of us can take to develop mindfulness during such uncertain times? Can you please share a story or example for each.
Great question! The past several years truly have shown us that our thoughts about what the future will be are unreliable. The pandemic, political tensions all over the world, and the changing media landscape have proven to us that we can’t predict — let alone control — the future. Being more mindful can help us navigate this uncertainty in many ways.
First, we can use mindfulness to notice that most of our fears are about the future. Take a moment right now to think of something that worries you. Is it the past, the present, or the future? Usually, it’s the future. Even if I’m worried about something that happened this morning, I’m probably concerned with what the consequences will be later.
Simply by bringing our attention back to moment-to-moment sensations, we can learn to take refuge in the present. This might involve bringing our attention to the sensations of our breath, the sounds around us, or the sensations of walking — our feet touching the ground, lifting, touching the ground again. We can even bring our attention to our natural surroundings — the clouds and trees, the sensations of the breeze. The more we practice paying attention to sensations here and now, the more we realize that at this moment we’re safe.
Second, and closely related, is noticing that our thoughts are just thoughts — not realities. This is called metacognitive awareness in modern psychology. Try this little experiment: Bring to mind something that’s a little bit upsetting — not the worst thing ever. Then ask yourself: here and now, if it were not for the thought of this difficulty, would you be having a problem? Usually, the answer is no. So, as we practice bringing our attention out of the “thought stream” to the sensations of the present moment, we gradually gain perspective on thoughts, and realize that they’re just thoughts. This helps us to be less reactive and upset every time a difficult thought arises.
A third way we can use mindfulness practices in changing times is to simply notice that things have always been changing. Try this exercise: What was your worry three worries ago? Most of us can’t even remember — but a little while ago it was a big deal. Just noticing that sensations, thoughts, and emotions are constantly changing can help us not to be as disturbed by the contents of our hearts and minds in each moment. When we become frightened, sad, or angry, many of us fear that this feeling will last forever — and we can get desperate about trying to get it to go away. The reality is that the contents of consciousness are always changing.
A fourth way we can use mindfulness is to connect more honestly with others. Social media posts might make it look like everyone else is having nonstop fun, doing exotic things with beautiful people. But the reality is quite different; life is challenging for everyone. The more we practice mindfulness, the more we see that pleasant and unpleasant experiences are always coming and going. We can risk being honest with friends and family about this. Social support is very important to all of us. As the Turkish saying goes, “No journey is too long with good company.”
Fifth, mindfulness can help us to cultivate gratitude. When we’re frightened about an unstable world, we can lose track of what we have. The more we practice mindfulness, the more we appreciate the taste of a piece of fruit, the joy of a child’s smile, the blue of the sky, or the sound of rain. Abundant research confirms that gratitude is an important building block of well-being. It moves us away from focusing on what we want and don’t have, and connects us to the world outside ourselves.
From your experience or research, what are five steps that each of us can take to effectively offer support to those around us who are feeling anxious? Can you explain?
The steps that I just outlined for ourselves to take to navigate changing times can help others too. When others are anxious, we can help them to 1) take refuge in the present moment, 2) see that it’s their thoughts of the future that are frightening them, 3) appreciate that the world has always been changing, 4) share our own honest experience with them, and, finally, 5) help them to identify the things that they’re grateful for.
What are the best resources you would suggest for someone to learn how to be more mindful and serene in their everyday life?
There are so many great resources out there! The ones I have found to be most helpful (as well as my own books) are listed at my website, DrRonSiegel.com. There are also lots of free meditations on the website to try. For general instructions for establishing a regular mindfulness practice, I invite you to check out my earlier book, The Mindfulness Solution: Everyday Practices for Everyday Life.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life?
If I had to choose one, I’d choose “make a connection, not an impression.” This is the theme of my most recent work, which is dedicated to helping us all step off the self-esteem roller coaster to become less preoccupied with whether we’re living up to expectations or doing as well as other people.
After years of involvement in both meditative traditions and psychological practice, you might expect someone to have a secure, stable, positive sense of self. But a few years ago, I noticed that there I was in my 60s, and my feelings about myself were still going up and down — sometimes several times in a day. The same was happening for my patients. Researching this further, I discovered that humans are actually hard-wired to worry about how we compare to others — and it plagues us all to a greater or lesser degree.
This turns out to be a tremendous waste of time and energy, which ultimately makes us miserable. I became interested in how we might find other, more reliable pathways to well-being. The most effective alternatives start with seeing how we each get trapped in addictive cycles of trying to bolster our self-esteem. Then we can learn instead to connect honestly with other people, engage more mindfully in the ordinary moments of our life, and cultivate gratitude for the little things. You can learn how in my recent book, The Extraordinary Gift of Being Ordinary: Finding Happiness Right Where You Are.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Thank you! My movement would focus on helping us all to more honestly share our vulnerabilities with one another. I see this as an antidote to the idea that we all need to be winners, or “the most special.” It would lead us to need fewer material things, be more generous with one another, tell the truth more, and have a lot more fun enjoying each other’s company.
What is the best way our readers can follow you online?
As I mentioned earlier, for lots of free resources for learning mindfulness and exploring the other themes we’ve discussed, visit DrRonSiegel.com.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We wish you only continued success in your great work!
Dr. Ronald D. Siegel On How to Develop Mindfulness During Stressful Or Uncertain Times was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.